Equity Unleashed: Transforming Education with Social Justice (Part 2 of 2)

Get ready to be inspired and empowered. In the first part of this two part episode, Dr. Tami talks with her guests, Dr. Bre Evans-Santiago & Dr. J. Kevin Taylor. These teacher educators are engage with recruiting, preparing, and supporting diverse educators. Their mission serves as an inspiration to educators and institutions nationwide.

In part 2, we dive into how these Co-Directors of the California State Univeristy Center for Transformational Educator Preparation Program (CTEP) disrupts systemic oppression with its intentional support, tools, and resources for educators.

Head to dragonflyrising.org for links to resources and websites mentioned in the episode.

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Transcript

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 Hello everyone. And welcome back to the newest episode of the dragon fly rising podcast. It's me, your host. Dr tammy dean back with our amazing guests dr kevin taylor and dr Bri evans santiago from the center at csu uh they're back to share some more details and in-depth information about their center and how it works to disrupt systemic oppression and promote social justice and equity so really excited to get back to learning more from them about the programs and opportunities they have so let's dive right back in  

so we have this equity and excellence certificate program. And with the equity and excellence certificate program, we,  have sponsored, and now we're going to offer it.  Later down the road for free, where we have these asynchronous courses that are facilitated by someone,  within the CSU,  that is within this work within the center that  helps us understand first the foundations.

The foundation of education, the structural racism, the, you know, where are we, what has been, and where can we go. So just the foundation of,  specific words like being biased, what are marginalized, like making sure that we're all on the same page. Right, right. If we're going to be a CSU as a whole, we need to get these words and we need to understand where we're coming from.

And so,  you know, Historical timelines and vocabulary, what have you, then it moves into personal,  personal connections and really taking the time to,  so, of course, to is more of like understanding self,  understanding self and thinking about,  my journey and where can I go? What do I believe? You know,  and then thereafter, the last course is taking action.

So it's like, now that you understand the foundations, now that you have,  critically looked within,  now do something about it. So within your sphere of influence, whoever you are, faculty, staff, administration, students, whoever you are and wherever you are, what can you do right now?  And then do it and then come back and share the data.

As to what happened. So it could be a staff member that said, I started putting welcoming posters or language or, you know, I added something to my signature line,  you know, we're not asking for miracles, we're asking for steps, we're asking for movement. Right. And so that's that certificate program. And so that's been pretty,  I think powerful,  as to how people are coming about and saying, I never even thought of myself as this, or I didn't know, you know, That I can make a change in where I worked because I am just, I am just the da, da, da, but it's like,  no, you're a lead.

You're someone where you are. You can make impact. And so I think that's been really powerful from that.   So we have that. And then we also have this coaching. We have coaching that goes on through improvement science. And so we work with each of the teams that have been selected the 10 teams and they,  go through their own goals for their campuses.

How are they going to transform? What do they need? And that's been powerful as well.  And then  what else throughout all of that, they end up  creating change packages, change packages are if you wanted to make this change. Here's what it can look like. This is what we did. And here it is in a nice little package for you where you can take that.

And use that where you are. Revise it, what have you, to match your needs, but overall, this is like what we're doing. Yeah. So we have these different elements of that. Yeah. Yeah. So  I want to come back, right? Because yeah, people here, right. Disrupt systemic oppression  and they're like,  whoa, whoa, I can't do that.

These systems and structures have been in place. For a long time, right, which is true, but then and so this is where I like to use and right. Yes  systemic oppression and systems have been in place And  you have the opportunity to use your person and your voice and your  interactions and vision with others to make a change, to influence that, right?

And so I hear you saying your center helps support, right, people with  It sounds huge and big, right? But how do I take it down to actionable pieces, right? So when I, you hear  like socially just practices,  like what, like when people come to you, is that like, what do they think that means? And what does it really mean, right? 

So how do you, how do y'all like kind of address that? I would love to hear that because you know, you,  we tend to sometimes as educators or as humans think like, I do this thing, now I'm X  versus  this is a journey. Yes.  So I would love your journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. And I think it's very different for different people, uh, um,  but myself,  with the many layers of privilege that I have coming to,  an education space, I I'm, I'm in a very different place, have a very different background to everybody else at that.

So. It's going to be different for different people. , but as Brie was talking about getting people to take that first step, make a small change. , I can disrupt systems of inequity by putting my hand up at a meeting and saying, well, speaking as a feminist  and actually  giving voice to the fact that As a privileged white male, I'm going to self identify as a feminist. 

 I didn't think anything about doing that the first time I did it, and then,  at the end of the class or the meeting or wherever it was, people left and right were coming to say, wow.  You're a feminist. I'm like, of course, I'm a feminist. I, I, you know, how could you call yourself an educator and not be a feminist?

For goodness sakes,  I was pissed off about it.  But, so, sometimes you can change systems of inequity just with, it, it can begin with small actions and over time as you reinforce for that and you realize, wow, yeah. This is really important, then  the change gets bigger. You take on more things. It's like adding new teaching tools to your, to your bag and refining your craft as an educator,   to bring more and more in there. 

Yeah. An example of that is so we have the third prong is networking, like sharing and networking. So we had this,  convening and one of the campuses, actually was talking about  looking into why are teachers of color not finishing,  like, why are they not complete? They get in, but they're not complete.

What's happening? Well, they found out that oftentimes they would Stop going or they were dismissed from the program. Why what's happening? Oh, well, it looks like there's a B and C that didn't happen. So they started digging in and  out  what was happening. And from that, they changed the processes.  Within that campus to say, Hey, in our program, let's try this for now on when you see a student with, you know, dispositions that you don't agree with, or maybe they're not coming through like they should or what have you.

Let's do an improvement plan.  Let's check on them and let's make sure these improvement plans are getting done. So that way there's intervention and goal setting instead of saying go because you didn't do what you were supposed to do, right? Changing that institutional mindset. And because of that, this campus has already increased their completion rates and they have more students of color enrolling.

And being a part of their system, you know what I mean? And so, and they saw an increase of improvement plans and a decrease of dropouts. Like you're seeing the data. So this center has taken the time to support this team with digging into the data, making these goals, making these changes, and now the program, actually more than one program, three programs have been scaled out to continue to do this work.

And so a simple thing, Thank you.  Right. But it's going to make huge change  because we took the time to do that. Right. Yeah. It's just one small example.  Yeah, someone asked the question, and then,  so it takes that person, right? Like, we're back to this, right? Ask the question, why?  Is anybody wondering why  these teachers are leaving?

And we want them to stay, right? So, what are we gonna do differently? Something isn't working, right? It's kind of like,  I think of it this way,  you know, you're, you're teaching a class,  And no one's doing well, right? Everyone failed the test or didn't do well the test. It isn't the students. News flash, y'all.

It's not the students. It's you.  there's a misalignment  between  communication and expectation and, and outcome. So how do you, how do you dig in? How do you change? How do you adjust? But you have to be open. Right.  To the question and to the,  and you have to be willing to ask it,  right?

Even within our website, the questions are there. So we've developed questions that people have asked or that we hear. And if you have the question, then you click on that link.  Boom. And there's a change package to help you figure out how to work through that problem. If that makes sense. So it's like, yeah, if there's a question where it's like, you know, why, why are, like you said, why are students dropping out?

Or, um, you know,  how can I recruit more? Da da da da da.  Someone from our teams has started to work on that and they've created something that we can use resources. Then we're able to provide those for others to look into later, if that makes sense. So that's,  we're trying to help answer those questions or not.

We don't have, we're not the end all be all, but if you're sitting here with the question, we want to help. With something, if we can, that's the point of this center is yeah, resources and the support and to work through it, you know, a network to be able to continue to.  Yeah.  Yeah. So I have a wondering. Okay.

Cause I don't even know if you know this. So,  when I was doing my dissertation research, it was focused on,   following pre service teachers. So y'all work with pre service teachers and,   they had the opportunity to engage with socially just practice and education. And I was curious. What happened when they left and we're like going into student teaching, right?

and they all experienced a lot of challenges and barriers to implementing and integrating right some of the socially just educational practices they had learned because there's a misalignment between what was happening in their college classes And then what would happen when they go student teaching so I'm curious,  are you, like, how is that all this great work you're doing right and you're preparing and connecting them , how are you seeing that trickle effect into the schools like, are the students.

 Becoming advocates when they go out in their practicum and student teaching. Are districts and schools like, hey, what are y'all doing over there? Working your magic in the CSU system. Tell us about this. Come help support us. So  what is that looking like?  Initially, it looks like,  really focusing On that embedded experience.

We have,  within,  C tech. We have the key transformational elements. Katie is,  that we focus on,  that really reflect best practice in teacher ed. So,  building university school district partnerships. Okay.  Training teachers who are going to endure in the profession takes a community,  if it takes a village to raise a child, it takes a community to raise a teacher.

Uh, and you got to connect those, uh, teacher prep programs,  with the school districts and with the community. And it can't just be important to the teacher prep programs that our candidates. Um, get into the profession and, and, and stay there. It has to be important to the districts as well. Absolutely.

And so within the center, some of our programs are looking at, at that relationship and,  and working with human resources  at a school district.  To ensure that  they are supporting  candidates that are coming from  black, indigenous  populations, brown skin, black skin, making sure that they are celebrated, supported, nurtured within  the school district because we can do a fabulous job in teacher prep  But if we turn them into schools that,  are still anchored in a white supremacist culture, that's gonna be hard work for them to stay there.

Yeah, we give them, we have to give them support. So,  the, the  KTEs. These key transformation elements look at,  building partnerships with school districts, identifying prioritized skills for educators,  and, and, and particularly looking at, developing skills that help them be well prepared to disrupt systemic oppression,  designing practice based teacher preparation programs,  so, so they're learning to teach In the schools,  and providing feedback on prioritize skills, and using data to,  make things better, continuous improvement  based on data driven decision making.

So those are elements and Bri can, I'm sure can, can add to that. Those are elements of  CTEP where we, we try to get at that. Yeah. Yeah.  And power of community. Go ahead, Brie. Sorry. That's exactly what I was going to say. That it does take the community. And there are times where this has caused our, our programs and teams to look at who they're partnering with. 

So I don't know if you, if you know of one of our campuses,  they don't directly work with CTEP, but we support, you know, all teacher ed programs within Cal State system. Cal State Fullerton actually  cut off a huge partnership with the school district because of some of their practices and decisions.

And so we're getting real. And we're saying this is what needs to happen. This is what we believe  and this is what we need to move forward. Now, at the same time, in order for us to know where they are later, that takes again networking. So that's part of it's like alumni come back, share. What are you doing?

Let's keep in touch. Let's so we have the center, the education quality center within the chancellor's office that collects data.  So they are responsible for going out and finding out, you know, are they being employed? You know, how many of our, you know,  teacher candidates are continuing to be employed, retention, things like that.

And so we're continuing to work on that so we can collect that data. It goes up and down and it's really hard to find folks, especially in California,  because they have a lot of options, right? Up and down.  Yes. And so because of that,  We're still in the process of figuring out,  more accurate and,  sustainable ways where we could keep up with that and find out where they are and what they're doing.

 But a big, uh, big connection now is the residencies, you know, so many of our campuses have residencies. And so. They create their cohorts and they stay together. They can, you know, and things like that. And so those have been pretty positive. And those are throughout our Cal State campuses. And so I think that's a start.

 So it's continuing to learn from each other, but it can be hard once they're out, because if we, if we're not doing it for our job and like following them, then how do we keep up? So through social media. Good community connections, continuing to keep up with those districts. So then that way, maybe those pre service teachers are then our mentor teachers.

I was just thinking that I'm like, Oh, what a powerful opportunity, right? Like you all are built  and are building, I'm going to say built in building, right? Because it's ongoing, but this really powerful community. Of educators that value and seek out this type of opportunity and like continuing, like in my mind, I'm just like, how amazing would that be to be a mentor to write like a student?

Like I went through this and I experienced this and you know, that networking is so powerful  because. We are meant to live in community as humans  and people and support each other, right? So  that's so exciting.  And you know what? Bravo to you all. Like, I'm just going to give you all some kudos, right?

Like,  because  to say and hold the line, right? To hold this boundary of this is who we are. This is what's important. This is what's important for students, for educators, for people, for humanity, right? Like, all these things.  And this is what we're looking for. These are the experiences that are essential and vital.

And if your  district isn't doing that,  then this isn't a, this isn't a fit for us. This isn't a good match. Because this is what we value, right? Because that just,  This is what I feel like. I feel like that's how change happens, right? Like, kind of like what happened with, I'm taking my students to this one school, right?

And they start to see the impact of what you all are doing and the teachers that are coming out of your system and, you know, how that ultimately, because,  um, at least for me personally, like this work to me ultimately comes down to the experience that the students  have in their learning environment. And that it is shifted for them.

Yeah. You know. And that's why it is so critical that we address this problem of the lack of diversity in our teacher workforce. We need black and  brown teachers. We need  indigenous teachers. We need people at the front of the classroom to inspire kids  from all backgrounds,   to.  be interested in education.

We need people at the front of the classroom,  demonstrating that  all kinds of people can be teachers, can be leaders, can, can,  take these positions. It hurts everyone not to have diversity represented at the front of the classroom. It can't just exist in, in, in the, in the student body. It has to exist.

In the,  in the teacher workforce as well. Absolutely. Representation  matters. It's, it's, it really does. It, I mean, it's, you know, and some people think that sounds cliche, but it's, it's, it's absolutely true. That is, you know, in, in, uh, another parallel from my work in social justice with people with disabilities.

 Including kids with disabilities  is important, not just for kids with disabilities. It's for kids without this. It's for everybody. Because we all should be exposed so we don't feel threatened by our ignorance.  And, um, it is so true with other forms of, uh, of  human difference.  We need women and men.

We need people with different orientations, different skin color, different cultural backgrounds, different religious beliefs, all represented so that  The students get a,  A true education that represents all of humanity.  Absolutely. Absolutely. I had a conversation recently. Someone was talking about pronouns.

Right? And  not, and understanding the why behind the pronoun, right? Like even, like my, my pronouns are she, her, hers. But it is important for me to share my pronouns as a cis female because then it's not odd. You know, like it's welcoming and inviting and It is  belonging. Everyone belongs, right? And the importance of belonging.

And I, I think what you're saying, Kevin, I think that part gets missed.  Like that Y piece sometimes gets missed. 





So I want to think about how have you been seeing, and I'm going to share the link y'all,  to their website because it has 8, 000 gajillion resources on it. Like I don't even think a gajillion is a word, but it is in my book today.  They have a plethora, that's also one of my favorite words, but a plethora of resources for you.

So even if you're not in California, y'all. You should check out this website and look at their resources. What have you all found to be  the most compelling thing? Like, what are things that people are going to all the time? They're like, Oh my God, I'm so glad you guys have this. Like, what are some things that people can find on your website? 

I think the big one is what Kevin was saying, the partnerships.  Building the partnerships, because with our work, we want to ensure that it's not just saying, Oh, I have a district that I'm gonna work with. It's, do they believe in. The same mission vision that you have it as a team or as your campus or program.

And, is that being shared? Are you all mutually agreeing upon what the outcome for these students will be if they are placed at your site? And so that's been 1 of the biggest. Questions and most people are working on. How do we create that MOU? Like what should be in there? What, you know, where are boundaries?

Where's our hard? No.  What else can we add?  Where do we compromise? You know, how do we say this to ensure that they get it, but it's not lost. So,  you know, oftentimes when we say social justice, people don't.  Quiver or think it's something horrible.  But then when you define what that is,  you know, and people know and understand, Oh, okay.

It's ensuring that people get, you know, equity, equity, equitable treatment, or to ensure that people are,  being socially accepted and that, that, you know, and things like that. And it's like, Oh, Okay, that's not bad. But for some reason, sometimes specific words can turn someone off. So it's like, how do we navigate through that kind of stuff to ensure  that we're getting across our mission and vision to still ensure that they're going to support the students the way that we would like them to,  you know, keeping them.

But at the same time, also ensuring that that we're on the same page. So I think that's a big one. Yeah, the partnerships.  I think another one is providing that that feedback.   So we have various teams that have revised their rubrics of their observation templates and and and things like that, because they want to ensure that there is more D.

I infused right that there is.  Discussion of an attention, paying attention to inclusion and what does that look like in the classroom. And so if I'm observing you,  you know, and on my rubric, it says a B and C. I want to make sure that C also includes a little bit of this because that's just as important.

And so people are starting to revise observational rubrics or thinking about the way they. Evaluate their students,  supporting the supervisors more,  and the co teachers as well, to ensure that they are going in with that lens as well, because we talk about it a lot as teacher educators, but the supervisors and the co teachers should also be on the same page.

Yeah, a lot of that comes in with that feedback and that that student experience  as they're moving, you know, through their, their programs, their credential programs. So those are the areas that I think  have been pretty, consistent with, wanting support or seeing resources or asking the questions, you know, how do you do it?

And what is, what does that look like? And do you have a campus that does A, B, and C, you know, this is, you know, those types of things. So that's what I've seen  thus far. Yeah, well, that's powerful, right? To have a model and a resource and to be building that alignment, right? So that there's that consistency there because You know,  if you say you value diversity, equity and inclusion, where are you asking to see that?

Where is that expectation for the demonstration of that  in your Action. Yeah. And interaction  with, with people and others, right? Because you can say,  you know, we're working on, you know, and this,  we see this a lot, right?  We, we, we believe in equity and we believe in diversity.  Where's the evidence?

Microscope.  Yeah. Where, where's the evidence of that?  Where, where, what action  are you taking around that? And not like lip service action, like actual action  around this work,  you know, and it comes back to, right? Even if it's starting in small ways and you're building to that and you're, you're like leaning on how am I getting resources to support and do this?

What could this look like? Like, I'm not sure.  So I think that's amazing. I. It is not surprising to me that that is some of the biggest right because that right there comes back to me for your mission and vision, right? That is disrupting the systemic oppression that's happening in schools because those structures right on how we evaluate or interpret learning or teaching, right, disrupting those things and changing those.

To include these components  is doing exactly that, right? Because it's providing a different lens and opportunity for that.  So  this may be hard because  I always have a hard time with this, but I'd love to kind of always provide like  a tip for educators, right? So we've talked.  A lot about like we can take this one next step.

So  educators that are listening that aren't sure like I would love for you each to share, a little some advice, like how, how, how should they do that? What would be a tip for you? I know, Kevin, you shared a book that kind of inspired you. Feel like there are resources out there that like we can utilize.

So what just What is that kind of tip for your educator? Like, what is your one next step? How can they use their voice? What would you want to share with an educator listening?  I would say, it, it's going to change over time, but don't be afraid to challenge yourself and your own assumptions.  As an educator, You have to challenge your own assumptions, your own practice,  and to keep making progress.

One of our sites,  admitted. After,  sharing their change,  packet that,  their change package emphasized the fact that they were actually really bad at doing something that what they had been trying to do wasn't working. And they were really worried about that to begin with, but then they realized  and within CTEP, we were celebrating that.

This is brilliant. Yeah.  You know what's not working.  You know that what you were doing,  isn't doing what you wanted it to do. That knowledge is power. So I would say to all educators, don't be afraid. to interrogate your own practices. When you find out you're not very good at something,  tell everybody and share that.

Be vulnerable because you're going to find educators who will support you and help you to grow and change. And that  fundamentally is, is what education is about.  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.  And I think for me, I would just add,  for the educators that think that they're there.  So we have some that say like,  or I know, or I, you know, I, I teach others.

I research about, you know, I know this,  that it's okay to continue to learn. And even if it's not in your specific practice, for instance, how Kevin said, Oh, well then I started learning about disability and what that looks like and finding out about disability justice. There are so many intersections  That we could explore and build upon our own knowledge.

So yes, I am an expert in  I couldn't even say that because I know I'm not an expert in anything I'm continuously growing and learning, but if some people feel that they are,  I'm an expert in A,  but the intersectionalities that connect with A, there's something else there. And so I challenge our educators or teacher educators that have been in the game for a while or know this stuff and are continuing to do the work and we thank you for that.

But at the same time, dig in. There are other perspectives and there are other things that we may not yet know. And it's okay to continue to learn even as a seasoned  researcher or even as a seasoned, you know, educator. And I think that that's so important because when we start closing those doors and saying that we already get it, then whose voice did we just leave out? 

Oh,  Bree. Yes. Okay. Kevin's giving snaps. I'm just over here nodding. Yes.  Yes, because this is a journey, right? Like, I am with you. I say, I've been engaging with this type of work for 25 years. And I am still constantly learning and never not going to be because there's, there's always something new to learn, to see, to understand, to grow.

Like  in  coming back to what we talked about, right, like there's so many resources and people doing such amazing work  around equity and social justice that  I just don't know how you can say you're, you're done. Because how  is it ever done?  It's not done because we're not there like that. Everybody has equality, right?

So we're still working on it. So it's not done. So we all need to keep learning and knowing and doing and doing better and, and, and being better. And. Walking the walk,  along with how we're talking the talk.  So, I, oh my gosh, you two both, like those are amazing tips for our, our educators. And those of you listening, I am going to be dropping the, the link to their website so you can check it out.

If you are a teacher. Future teacher you know, check it out, go. If you're from California, like reach out to these wonderful,  amazing people.  They're doing great things and great work. And it has just been,  such an honor to talk with you both today. I appreciate all of your time and energies.  everybody listening. Don't forget, like, share, subscribe,  do all the great things.   Thank you both for your time and for all the hard work that you're doing. Thank you. 

Thank you.