Equity Unleashed: Transforming Education with Social Justice (Part 1 of 2)

Get ready to be inspired and empowered. In the first part of this two part episode, Dr. Tami talks with her guests, Dr. Bre Evans-Santiago & Dr. J. Kevin Taylor. These teacher educators are engage with recruiting, preparing, and supporting diverse educators. Their mission serves as an inspiration to educators and institutions nationwide.

In part 1, we dive into how the equity journey is an essential component of social justice work and how awareness leads to transformation and disrupting inequity.

Head to dragonflyrising.org for links to resources and websites mentioned in the episode.

Discovery Call

Transcript

  Hello everyone. Welcome to the dragonfly rising podcast. I am so excited to be here with you today. Today we have a couple amazing guests with us. , we have, Dr. Kevin Taylor and Dr. Bree Evans Santiago hailing from California, joining us.,  they are the co directors of the California State University Center for Transformational Educator Preparation Programs.

 They are doing some amazing work on those campuses. Uh, recruiting, preparing. Retaining and supporting educators of color across the state of California. So I'm really excited to talk with them today about what they're doing, with this very important work.

And I'm gonna give them a chance to introduce themselves. They both have some amazing bios. You can check that out in the podcast information to learn more about what they're doing.  And what they have done.  I would love to have you each introduce yourself and, you know, just share with everyone a little bit about your personal equity journey, like what brought you to this work?

So who, who wants to go first?  Oh,  it's Dr. Brie, all right.  Okay, um, hi everyone that's listening.  Just to let you know a little bit about myself. I think it's important to just start also with,  who I bring into the room. So I just want to share, you know, so my great grandmothers who have just really inspired me to be a strong Black woman.

In in the presence of of of people and and making that impact and continuing to fight the fight. So I always want to recognize them and and their strength in which I live by. , but with that being said, when I say that I am a black woman, some people speak to me in Spanish quite often in California, , because I do have lighter skin and because I do have curly hair.

And so quite often my identity is skewed or people may not speak know that I identify as a black woman. And so that's a part of my equity work. That's a part of my journey. As I've grown up, I've been in various spaces. I grew up in Sacramento, California, until I was a teenager and I there lived amongst, minority students.

So we were the majority, People of color, not just black folks, but black and Latino mostly.  Asian as well. So there was a big mix, you know, especially in Sacramento, close to the Bay Area, you have a big mix of,  of minority students, you know, what have you. But then, , throughout that journey, eventually I went to  A new area and in California.

It's it's Elk Grove. Now it's no longer new, but at the time Laguna Creek did not exist. I was one of the first houses ever built in Laguna Creek, and I went to a junior high school where everyone there  was white and count like cowboy like cowboy boots cowboy hats.  Like I did not fit. I did not fit. It was very uncomfortable for me. 

And that, that helped me see a different side, you know, a lot of, name calling, bullying, not understanding who I was, you know, just, you know, that type of thing and, and having to work through that. I  went back to my high school in Sacramento when my parents separated. So I was like, yes, I could be back with my people.

And then I  moved all the way to good old Illinois.  Hey, hey,  I,  I.  Was a minority again.  I lived in Bloomington went to one of the most diverse high school. So it was awesome for that for sure. But just in the town itself, I experienced, , stuff that I wasn't used to being followed being, police. 

Stuff, getting pulled over for like, I didn't know that we have light bulbs in our license plates holders. I didn't know that, but I got pulled over for that and good old, let me take, , so it's like, okay, all right you just check it. You want to just find something with me, sir. So those types of things was, I it was eye opening for me.

So when I finished my, my undergrad, I left, I went right back to California, wherever I could get in. Um, but my mom still lived in, in Illinois. So I came back for my doctoral degree way, you know, years later, and my experience was completely different in academia. I learned more about myself.  I had another black faculty.

I've only had two black teachers my whole life. , and that was where I had one of them., and so I learned a lot about my own identity and, you know, standing up for myself and learning about myself and, and who I really was. You know, and digging into intersectionality or what have you, and so that put me on the path, through my own life experiences to make sure that other students could have teachers that look like them, that other students would not feel, less valued.

And things like that in our school. And so my, my path, my journey, my love, my passion has been to support and help teachers ensure that they are making sure that their students feel.  a part of a class and feel valued and feel loved and feel, like they matter. And so that's, that's been my journey thus far.

And I've taught all over the place in the, in the process and, am happy to bring that into our space right now in California as I work for the chancellor.  Wow. You know what, Brie, I'm sorry, Kevin, just give me one second. Cause I didn't realize the depths of some of the parallels, right? Uh, You know, between you and I, I waited like 21 years in my education to come across another educator of, of  in my experience.

Right. And  the, the, the skewed, who are you? What are you? Right., and I, I talked about this in, in my, meet Dr. Tammy episode, but like when people are confused or not sure how you fit in. To whatever the identity is that they want to attach to you for whatever reason, right? Like people historically, and that's the problem, right?

With like looking at someone and making an assumption about who they are, where they come from and how they engage. But I, I hope we dig in a little bit more about that connection of , being like this other in this., dominant space, too, because that, that  changes how you think and view, I mean, it did for me, like, I'm just saying, like, that relates, I relate to that a lot, right?

Because I grew up in a predominantly white, neighborhood school system and, and people were very confused about who is Tammy Dean, right? Everybody assumes that I am,  you know, black, white, mixed racial heritage, which is not not accurate,  at all. And, that's just interesting.

So I just, I just wanted to talk about that. I just, the power of experience, right? And how we bring Our own experience to this work just is already permeating from what you shared. So I appreciate you sharing all of that background with us. And we don't want to forget about  Dr. Taylor. So Dr. Taylor, let's. 

Let's meet you. What's, what's going on with you? What have you been doing? Excellent. Thank you. No, I, I enjoyed learning more about Bree and her background and you, and, and about your background. And,  yeah, my background is very different, uh, from Bree's. I grew up in England.  My mother was a teacher and a fierce advocate for  kids that were struggling, and I think I took a lot from  my mother,  certainly  became an ardent feminist. 

She was a strong force in my life. , and as a high school teacher in England, I was really drawn to help students that some of my colleagues saw as problems and really sort of had this underlying sense that there's no such thing as a bad kid is just a kid making a bad decision. , and that my job was to help them make good decisions.

And so they made a bad decision that,, that that's where education really begins, right? Yes. Well, shoot, that's humanity, right?  Learning from  decisions. Which is important in education. Right. Exactly.  So,  I, I sort of had that sense, uh, of the importance of equity in education. , from an early age, and certainly, , early in my professional career.

Um, long story short, , I got itchy feet, wanted to travel. I came to the States to graduate school. I did a master's degree at Central Washington University. , and a doctoral degree at the University of South Carolina, , and very different cultural experiences, , and I was looking for different cultural experiences, , in my travels and,  and my education.

So I was very excited to go to South Carolina because I saw living in South Carolina as a part of my education. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. And, , it was very eye opening. I read, , I remember reading, reading Savage Inequalities, , by Jonathan Kozol., and, , it really, it blew me away and,  really, , changed, , my perception of, , education in the States because I hadn't been exposed to, , the, the kind of schools that he was writing about. 

, but, , that that was really important.  , fast forward a few years and, , a few years in teacher Ed, I worked in,  Colorado and then moved to California, , and I, , this is my 25th year at California Polytechnic State University in San Luis Obispo, , at interview. They asked me if I could teach, , the adapted physical education class because my background is physical education teacher ed.

And I said, no, there's no way I could teach that class. And that's important content. And if that's what this job's about, you should hire somebody else. , so as a little shocked when I got the job, , I was even more shocked and actually mildly insulted, , when I found out I was teaching adapted physical education  because I'm like, no,  I told you, and I genuinely believed.

This was such important content that you shouldn't have some nobbing that knows nothing about it teaching the class, right? Absolutely.  So, , I, I, I chose to look at it as an opportunity rather than a predicament. I shared the story with my students every quarter and said that, , I was committed to modeling lifelong learning, and that I was an emerging expert, , very slowly emerging at the beginning, , in adapted physical activity.

, I then, , went on to study and work and get grants and do community work promoting physical activity for people with disabilities. I quickly figured out that, , what my students needed was, , a course in disability studies. built into, , the, the context of physical activity programming. And, I started reading sociologists from, , all over the world that were looking at disability studies and trying to weave that stuff in there.

And, , you're from Texas. It was very, , very powerful author, Claudine Sherrill, who was in Texas, who was doing brilliant work, , in that area. And , I read everything I could get my hands on from her. And I really got passionate about, social justice education.  And found that in  teaching disability studies and working on in the area of, , adapted physical activity, I could use that as a vehicle to shine a light on other forms of prejudice, discrimination, oppression, , within our culture and. 

And really bring people along because, , there were people who were  really nervous to work with people with disabilities and through that  process of getting them into the community and getting them working. With people with disabilities, they, they got to see past the disability and connect with the human being.

And I brought that into the classroom and really talked about it as how, what they were doing was,  was really  exposing themselves to a  different, , to difference.  human difference, different experience, a different lens, a different culture, and, , and that they shouldn't feel threatened by that, that at, at all in any way.

They should just see that as something that they're not familiar with. And, it's just a, an opportunity for growth. And,   it became a very powerful,  way to open the students minds and perspectives. It became very much more than just,  teaching adaptive physical activity.  But,  it was fun.

And,  And it changed me fundamentally as a professional and as a human being.  Wow.  That's so powerful. Right? The power of  connection  to another person's humanity, like, and what I hear from that is right, like seeing and acknowledging  and learning to understand difference and differences,   it's good. 

And in that context as well, we were,  we were looking at people,  looking at people in terms of their potential and seeing what people could do because our society looks at people with disabilities as less than and tends to focus on people with disabilities and our culture focuses way too much on what people can't do.

And so,  All my work was focused with them on looking at what people could do,   and looking at create, creating equal status relationships,  with, uh, the people that they were working with. Um, and,  and again, I mean, in so many ways and so many layers, it was such a powerful way to address inequity and discrimination and oppression in other forms.

Yeah.  That asset view  is to me, I don't know how y'all feel about this, but that's the bedrock. of equity work, right? How do we start  noticing and naming the assets people bring  to wherever that is? I don't know. How do you guys think about that?  No, I think it's critically important. Uh, and, and, and they are the same, they're, they're the same themes across everything.

I remember I was doing all this work and, and I heard a colleague of mine at, social psychologists. A friend of mine here at Cal Poly,  talking about social justice, and all of a sudden that was, I remember that was the first time I'd heard that, that those two words together.  And I was like, Oh, whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute.

I'm doing that. That's what I'm doing.  Uh, I got, I was geeking out about what she was saying about social justice and, and scribbling down notes. And,  yeah, it, it, because it, it is the same. It's, it's a theme , runs throughout education.  Absolutely. Can I add to that too, just real quick thinking about how often Students of color are criminalized as soon as they step in a space,  right?

Or people of color, honestly, not even just  it can follow thereafter. But thinking about, these various ages. That we walk into a space and people may not know, like how Kevin was saying, they just may not have the experience with folks. They may not know how to communicate with different people that, you know, may not have grown up around them or that they, they understand  and immediately instead of thinking of what people can bring in, they're already thinking of how to get them out or what they didn't bring in or what, they're missing or, That type of mentality, and it's so often that that people of color  are thought of as doing something wrong  or being too different. 

before we even have a chance to show what we can bring. Oh, right. Yeah.  Um, I think assets help us to think about that, especially us as teacher educators, helping our new educators really hone into that and, and think about the silliest example of a student always banging on their desk, you know, that we see the videos about that and what have you.

And it's like, Well, but Are they musically sound,  is there a way that I can educate through UDL or through other components where this kid can now start to share and teach us or learn in another aspect that connects with their assets of being able to hear beats that I would never even think about, or being able to move in a way that  I didn't know was possible, like, so just really helping people see more Then thinking, Oh, this kid is trying to disrupt or this kid is, we're always trying to, you know, put people in a box that we know. 

And I think if we really help people learn about assets.  That we may not know all the answers and we may not know all of what they will bring in, but, but like honing into that and, and keeping our eyes open and our ears open to, to learning from our, our people, from our students, from others around us, I think  is huge, you know? 

Oh,  absolutely.  Right? Like,  you don't have to know.  All the answers  we can learn things from our students and your personal way of knowing being and moving and acting through the world isn't the only way  to do that. Right. And I think to me, like, this is like that compliance assimilation, right? There's like one way to do this.

And Um, the challenge in education, and I'm sure this connects to why you all have your,  center, is because, right, historically, educational spaces are geared for white, middle class, norms, families, expectations, and that there's only this. One right way  to engage  as a person in this space, right?

So where's the space, right? And how is it,  so it's not a safe space for  marginalized communities and people of color or difference, oftentimes, I'm just going to say even difference,  um,  because that asset view. Is missing  and  their students behavior isn't always about you.  How do you de center yourself  from what's happening?

So  I just kept thinking about like de center yourself. Not everything is about you, right? But if you're, you know, if you move through the world and the world typically centers you.  Right? How do you open your eyes? Kind of going back to what you said, Kevin, right? Like you realize your eyes open and now once your eyes are open, you see and you notice  it happening all the time.

So.  And you really need to, to work. To stay open because we get drawn into, uh, thinking about things,  in a certain way. And, and our culture, particularly in education,  takes us down that road. When I started here at Cal Poly, we were starting a new teacher prep program, and we had this progression of courses, teaching elementary PE in one quarter, that was taught in the elementary school, teaching middle school, PE was taught in the middle school.

teaching high school PE taught in a high school. And they had the elementary and the middle school classes here in San Luis Obispo in very white schools. And our students weren't being exposed to, difference. They weren't being exposed to the kids of the state of California. And, um,  I got in real trouble when I said, no, I'm going to take my high school class down to Santa Maria High School.

Uh, and I walked my class into Santa Maria High School, which is 99 percent Hispanic, and,  this bunch of white kids coming onto campus with me, they were all uncomfortable. I'm like, oh, this is, this is great.  And, and it became very much,  what you were saying about.  Not centering the experience on you and thinking about the assets that the students bring and,  it,  it went from,  an experience that,  got me in trouble,  a little bit with my,  with my colleagues, because I was not supposed to be doing this,  to,  everybody very quickly realizing That this was a heck of a good idea and this was a real asset to our program because it was just,   it, it, it was taking a different perspective and I don't think my colleagues realized that,  what they were doing was perpetuating these, these, uh, racist white supremacist perspectives  in their curriculum, but  it absolutely was.

Yeah,  and just by then taking my students into the school that was  so different and so such a contrast,  but so much more about the, the,  the demographic of people in California.  It really changed a lot of conversations amongst the students,  the teacher prep students, our students,  and,  it was very asset based,  and,  we, the curriculum at the school.

Um, uh,  had they had built in,  a vocab builder, daily words, and so my students would do a micro teaching and they had to, they had to go through the vocab words with the students and,  I challenge my students.  to,  then learn,  learn the English vocab words, because they were always English vocab words,  learn the Spanish, and, and, and, and try to model for the students that,  that they too could learn a new language, and help the students see that Being bilingual was a massive asset rather than,  as sadly a lot of their teachers even at Santa Maria High School at that time, were, were not seeing their Spanish language skills as an asset.

Yeah. That really floored me. And,  it,  it was a real,  became a real focus of teaching,  for that class. Yeah, I love that. Make good trouble, right? Like take a risk, use your voice. This is how the change happens, right? Like that's a perfect, perfect example to me of, of that making good trouble. So rest in peace, John Lewis, because we should all be making.

Good trouble.  Frizz like snaps. I know you can't see her all y'all, but she was snapping here in the video. But okay, so I want to talk about, I feel like we could talk about this for days because I feel like I want to talk about, you know, like  how  people were told to assimilate and speaking Spanish was bad and you needed to speak English, but I'm, we're not going to digress there today because I could definitely talk, go down that road.

But so thinking about the center, do you guys call it like C TAP? Do you guys have a... Is that what it is? Okay.  C TEP. All right, C TEP. Um, how did  it like it came about, right? So you saw this need and we put together the center. So I would love to kind of hear more about the creation of the center and its goals for supporting educators because we know there's not enough. 

Yeah, educators of color. In the field right now. Absolutely. And in California,  you know what,  the population of, of Of black, you know, the black population period is very low, right? Like, even though we say, oh, it's, you know, a minority state or what have you, but, , that there are people of color where it is still very minoritized, even within the space.

So we were talking like we were working together through the chancellor's office and we were saying, you know, there's this funding. It was through Bill Melinda Gates Foundation.  And we wanted to get some of that and see, like, if they could help because that was at the time they were,  funding centers, centers for transformation centers for supporting,  teachers of color.

And so we said, let's, let's get on board. Let's, let's see what we can do. And so what we did was we first requested,  a.  I guess, like a development grant, you know, so a smaller amount to just create the center. And then thereafter we requested, you know, 3 million to,  to run the center. And so we're sunsetting on both of, you know, all of that now, but for the past four years, we've really dug into this work and now we're at the space for sustainability.

So,  the center started with us thinking about  our mission and vision, what, who are we, what are we going to say, what is our ultimate goal, right, throughout all of this,  and  key words that come out of what we were doing and what we are doing and what we believe is, you know, the idea behind disrupting systemic oppression, like we say that, you know, that, that our goal as the CSU, you know, Which is, you know, we, we educate what over 50%, maybe like 60 percent of the educators in California.

So to disrupt systemic oppression, and to engage with socially just educational practices, and to learn and understand what that is, but through all of it moving towards that transformation. Of an equitable system, equitable structures, programs or what have you throughout.  And our, our goal was to not only reach.

The 20 of the 23 CSU campuses, but to spread and to share what we're doing so others throughout the country can also be a part or learn from or collaborate with our center  as we move toward this,  and so that's, you know, that vision  throughout. And we also, with that, we built these three uh,  prongs, if you will, of like what we use to be able to, to fulfill the need of a center.

This brings us to the end of part, one of our two part series with Dr. Kevin and Taylor and Dr. Bri Evans. And Santiago, I want to thank you both. And everyone listening for joining me today with the dragon fly rising podcast, and I encourage you to subscribe to the podcast. So you don't miss part two. I have this amazing conversation.  Two weeks from now. Where we'll learn more about the   center. And all of the things that they are doing there to disrupt systems of equity and to provide support to others, looking to replicate this vision and support social justice. So I look forward to seeing you in two weeks and hearing from you, but in the meantime, don't forget to like share and subscribe to the podcast. 

So you don't miss an episode. And head on over to Instagram and give me a follow at dragon fly rising LLC. And let me know if there's something else you'd like to hear in the future on the podcast, or if you have any questions for today's guests. So I look forward to hearing from you and talking to you soon.