Empowering Educators: Integrating Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in the Classroom

In this episode, Dr. Tami connects back with Kelly Schrems from Episode 2 to follow up on her use of the graphic novel, Wake, with her students.  A timely connection for Women's History Month as the graphic novel includes Dr. Hall's own historical process as well as bringing to light the story of the women who led slave revolts.

Join Dr. Tami  as she does  dive deep into the world of education  Kelly, an experienced educator passionate about integrating diversity, equity, and inclusion into the classroom. From sharing personal anecdotes to discussing practical strategies, Kelly provides valuable insights for educators seeking to create inclusive learning environments where all students feel valued and heard.

Learn more about resources and actionable steps to disrupt systems and move towards #socialjustice Engage with #equity work. 

📅 Interested in learning MORE and getting a customized plan for you or your educators? Set up a FREE call with me to discuss your personalized plan. 

Discovery Call

Transcript

Tami: 0:32

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Dragonfly Rising podcast with me, your host, Dr. Tammy Dean, and I am so excited. We have Miss Kelly back in the house with us today. You may have remembered her episode we were talking about the book Wake and some things she was doing with her students. So welcome back, Kelly.

Kelly: 0:53

So happy to be here again. It's so different like the second time. I'm like, okay, I know what we're doing now.

Tami: 0:59

You're like, it's like riding a bike. I can do this. No problem. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So,, one, if you haven't listened to episode, highly recommend you go back, take a listen. but second, we're going to do a little follow up. We talked about it on that episode. Um, Kelly was in the midst of planning this course for, her students around using the book Wake. and was trying to make some decisions. So we're going to lean in today into what happened. And think about, you know, those students, her highlights and those types of things. So I don't know, Kelly, do you want to just start us off with a kind of recap of your course and what you were doing with your students?

Kelly: 1:37

So, um this past semester, I got to introduce a dual credit course, at my high school bloomington high school. And it is Through partnership with our local community college, and it's history 135. It's like the first half of us history. So, like, to the year 1865, like, through the Civil War. and I was just thinking through some ways that I wanted to organize that class. There were kind of like a lot of requirements that I had to do, because of the partnership with the, Community college, but I was trying to think of ways like to kind of make it like engaging and get some like varying perspectives because it's one of those classes. That's like, very content heavy. And I was like, I don't want to sit here and lecture the whole class. And I don't want it to be like that. And I think it was just last. Not this past winter break, but the winter break before, I had come across the book Wake,, which is a graphic novel, and it kind of had like two purposes, it goes over kind of like what the job of a historian is in terms of like finding sources, and what historians actually do, other than, you know, write papers. How do they actually find that information? How do they find those sources? And then the other part, was researching, women led slave revolts. and I thought that that would be a topic that would be really engaging, for my dual credit students. And I thought the aspect of, like, actually understanding what historians do was also very appropriate, at the dual credit level. Yeah, so basically I decided that I was going to read this book with my students. And I did get to do that. Basically, I planned like one week and then a project around week. And yeah, so I guess we can kind of talk about what ended up happening.

Tami: 3:09

Yes. Yes. And I'm so excited. And I will put a link y'all back for the book, with the episode notes so you can go and check it out because it is absolutely amazing how she's layered in these perspectives and into this graphic novel and, you know, pro tip. Graphic novels aren't easier'cause they have pictures. They require some more inferring and those types of skills. So they're, they're super powerful. So, yeah, let's hear about, what happened and what you ended up getting to do. That

Kelly: 3:39

Yeah, so basically I decided that, um, it was appropriate to like read the book with my students. I really wanted to be there to help kind of explain. I knew that it was a topic that they were going to be like. Wait, what? Like, historians actually do stuff? Like, I knew they were gonna, like, need they were gonna have questions, and they were gonna need me there to talk about it. Like, I didn't want it to be, uh, here's this book, go home, read it, and everyone, like, doesn't actually read it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I want it to be, like, a

Tami: 4:04

never happens. What?

Kelly: 4:06

Yeah, right? I wanted it to be like legit. So I spent a week. and basically like each day I would just sit down with them. That I gave them all a book. I had a book and I sat down on my little teacher chair and we kind of read together because it was because it's a graphic novel. sometimes I had to do a little bit of like, okay, everyone pause, everybody look at the artwork on page blah, blah, blah. What do we think is going on? So it was interesting to read with them, especially as it's Like a social studies teacher, I guess I'm much more used to like if I am going to like read with my students, like reading like a primary source that's like all text. So that felt a little weird to me at first, like talking through what some of the artwork was showing and how like we were incorporating it into our understanding. But like throughout the week it kind of got better. but my students. We're very, very into it. Like, at first, I felt like they were like, What are we doing? Why are we doing this? Like, at first, I felt like they kind of had some, like, apprehension. but throughout the book, I started noticing like, their little, reactions at kind of, some of the shocking parts. Like, I started hearing, like, Like, as I was reading, or like, some kids were like, What? Like, they can't do that! Like, kids just started, like, out loud reacting as we were going through the book.

Tami: 5:17

My God.

Kelly: 5:19

like, talking with them and reading the book out loud and kind of discussing it. I also had some, like, questions that they were answering as we went. So, like, after each chapter, we would pause. We would kind of talk through the questions that I gave them. So that was the process of, like, reading the actual book. And then I thought The best part was what I ended up assigning them afterwards. I decided to assign them, what's called an un essay. So basically the point of the un essay is like anything but an essay. And that was interesting to explain to them because they were like, what do you mean? Like, in this class it's very writing heavy because of the partnership with the,

Tami: 5:55

right.

Kelly: 5:55

community college. So I was like, you are allowed to do anything, but you cannot write me an essay. And they were like, well, that, They were, they kind of like, again, had apprehension at first, um, but I gave them a couple weeks, I had a couple check ins, and honestly, the products that a lot of them came up with, I was like, super blown away by. Um, so it ended up being a really cool, like, experience for them, but I feel like also for me. Yeah,

Tami: 6:21

So lots of impact there, right? No, I love you can hear and feel the passion right around it. And that's so exciting. Like, I want to come back to the reading. Cause that's one thing that I think maybe sometimes content teachers in secondary are like, you know, I'm not a reading teacher, so I'm not sure that that's something I want to utilize, but like touch base with. English teachers or your literacy specialists, if they're there around some of the tools. And so as a literacy person, right, like I'm hearing you share, right, like naming and noticing, like, what are you noticing? And then naming it and sharing it. And. To me, it sounds like you built a really safe space with these students. The fact that they're verbally Sharing like you can't do that and are willing to connect like there's nothing better. I mean, I'm an avid reader That's a disclaimer But there's nothing better like when someone else is reading a book and then you get to talk about Like the crazy whatever you've noticed or read in the book. So I'm curious I want to come back to that for a second. Did they end up Having like little side conversations, were they in small groups or like how, what kind of happened as this catalyst of them getting really engaged with the book now that they're like, okay, this is cool,

Kelly: 7:38

so this was my first time doing it and this was my first time again like I'm, I'm a history teacher I'm a content teacher so I wasn't used to like reading a book with a class. so I just kind of went for like what felt natural we read it like all together there was only 16 students in the class so it was a small class. So to be honest, I guess I didn't even go through the process of like thinking about grouping and stuff I think that's something I could definitely like. Think about in the future, especially if we're expecting our enrollment in dual credit classes to continue rising So I feel like i'm gonna have to think through like

Tami: 8:07

Whoo.

Kelly: 8:08

other ways I can group these students.

Tami: 8:10

Problem to have.

Kelly: 8:11

Yeah, no, it totally is. It is a great problem But so yeah, we basically read it as like a full group all together and I do feel like that group in particular was a little bit quiet So I was really happy that I had kind of discussion questions prepped because I think if I had, like, gotten through the chapter and been like, what do you think? I think they would have, got a little scared at first, but the fact that I had prepared questions already, I feel like that introduced, conversation a lot more than maybe it would have, but yeah, so they, I think that they actually reacted a lot more to the chapters about, Dr. Hall actually, like, doing the historical research. in the last episode, we talked about how she tried to go to, like, the Lloyds of London,

Tami: 8:55

Mm hmm.

Kelly: 8:56

much like, Nope, if you're studying slavery, you are not allowed to have our primary sources. that moment in particular, all the kids, they got so mad, like, I had to actually Stop reading at that point. And they were like, we have to talk about this. and then

Tami: 9:10

Yes.

Kelly: 9:11

kind of some of the reflections that they did in their questions throughout, like every single one of them wrote about like that moment. Every single one of them were like, I just didn't know that sometimes we don't know things because historians can't get access to the information and I was like, yeah,

Tami: 9:26

of information, right? Like, holding it hostage. Like, hi, welcome to textbook publishing. Right? Like, not everything can be in there and isn't. Right,

Kelly: 9:40

reaction. and it kind of made me a little bit sad. She was like, wait, so like, she's like, but like, D. E. I. like matters and incorporating all of these perspectives matter, but she's like, but it never occurred to me that sometimes these perspectives aren't included because like doing the work is that hard. yeah, it is that is why. Well, for a long time, we've hidden a lot of these perspectives, but even in like 2024, as these ideas are becoming much more prevalent, especially in education. I'm like, yeah, like that is a problem that we're going to run into. Like as a history teacher, sometimes it's hard to go find the sources that I want to use to talk about this topic, um, or whatever topic it might be, obviously. But that was kind of a hard moment, I would

Tami: 10:26

Yeah, but how profound, right? And I think sometimes people don't give teenagers credit, but I think teenagers are amazing, right? They're asking the hard questions. They're noticing these moments like, wait, why is that? Like, And that's what's gonna make us better. I feel like in this equity work is, is these young people. And I mean, I still feel young, but these young, young people, you know, asking, asking these questions. So that's super exciting. So, I, full disclaimer, I love projects. I know that sounds crazy because I'm, you know, like a literacy person and writing is fabulous too, but I just think students, I can't wait to hear what some of the things your students did because I feel like they just are so creative when we provide the right, opportunity, guidance, like you're setting them up for success, with their creativity. So, Let me hear more about this like anything, but an essay and how that went down.

Kelly: 11:29

So I actually was really anxious about it because I actually don't like a signing project. Because if someone assigned that to me, I would be like, what do you mean I have to come up with something like that? It's so annoying. So I was a little anxious about deciding it because I was like, okay, like, is this, is this gonna suck? Are they not going to take it seriously? Like, I just, I wasn't really sure how to feel about it. I did already have experience actually doing something like this. Um, so just this past fall, I was also teaching a class at ISU. It was the, it was the pre service teachers, like the class they take before they student teach. Um,

Tami: 12:06

Mm hmm.

Kelly: 12:07

and the professor I was working with, um, we decided to assign an un essay for a book that they had read over the summer. So I did already have some experience with it, just like on a little bit of a different level, cause all of those students were obviously like future teachers, they're seniors, they're about to be student teaching. Like, I felt like the content that they were learning maybe hit closer to home for them. and I was, I was just unsure, like how my high schoolers slash kind of college students were going to respond to that same project. Um, but I am, I ended up glad that I did it. Sorry for cutting you off.

Tami: 12:40

No, no, I was cutting you up. I was just so excited. I'm like you took the risk.

Kelly: 12:45

Yeah.

Tami: 12:45

So you signed it and you're glad you did

Kelly: 12:47

I am glad that I did. Um, the process was. a little tough. I did get a lot of them doing the thing that I would have done, which was like, what do you mean? We don't like this. Like a lot of the teenage,

Tami: 13:02

Mm

Kelly: 13:03

They don't want to put an effort right away, right? Kind of like the, oh, I have to do a project, but I noticed that once they started talking through ideas, um, that I felt like they actually started getting excited about it. So I had like assigned that the Friday that we had finished reading the book, and then I gave them a couple weeks because I wanted them to 1 have the 1 week where they complain. And then 2 have like the week where they actually think through like. What am I gonna do? And then three of the week were like, they actually go ahead and do it. Because I didn't I didn't necessarily want it to be like a super quick turnaround because I felt like then they were just going to put something together and be like, whatever. I'm turning it in. So I definitely wanted to give them some like reflection time. And I do feel like that worked. I had a lot of different things turned in, which was very, very interesting. So I had one student do an interview with her mom, so this student pretended to be, Dr. Hall, and then she created questions for her mom to ask her, and they like filmed it. So it was really cute actually. Her mom was like sitting at the kitchen table like asking her questions, and she like had her little glasses on, and she was like Well, I'm Dr. Hall and she kind of was like trying to replicate what she thought this historian would have said and I'd say she was like very accurate based on like the interviews that I've like read with Dr. Hall and stuff. I think she really hit it on the head. So that was a really cool one. Let's see, what else? I had a lot of, like, artwork turned in, which I thought was really fun. I had, let's see, one student did, like, a comic strip, but she did, like, a comic box of her reflection on each chapter. So it was, like, ten total boxes for the ten chapters, and then she, like, Had like, however, she was reacting to that chapter, however, she was reflecting on it.

Tami: 14:54

hmm. Mm

Kelly: 14:55

one was also really cool. Let's see. What else did I have? Um, I had a student create like a real, like a real, real work of art. It was like a, it was like supposed to be herself. And she kind of had this, Really like deep thinking, look on her face. And then it was all black around her. Then they were like all of these eyes staring at her. And I did make them, if they were going to make me something like that, where it wasn't obvious, what was going on here, then I told them they had to do a little one page. Like, how does this relate to what you learned? And she explained that she just felt like the whole time reading the book. Like, wow. Is this what really happens? Like she just. I can't remember exactly how she phrased it, but it was really interesting how she reflected on it. She just felt like she had never, thought about how everyone else in the world was reflecting on, what had happened in the past. So she almost felt like she was, like, being watched. So, that was a really, interesting, um, reflection that I read from her. But yeah, there were, like, just a lot of really interesting things that they did.

Tami: 16:01

Yeah, that's so awesome. And you may not be able to share samples but if you are, I would love to like link a few for teachers that are like, Ooh, I'm interested in exploring this and seeing what, what kids could come up with. So I always love the artwork.

Kelly: 16:16

I also had a student make a pop up book. Like it was like an actual book. And yeah, so I was supposed to have this stuff. I was supposed to be in my classroom, but it was negative 35 degrees this morning. So we didn't go to school today. but there was like this pop up book where the student was kind of showing, how she was reacting to what had happened in wake. I had another student do a playlist, which I thought was really, really cool. So basically what he did was he thought through like each of the chapters, he thought about a major theme from the chapter, and then paired it with like a song that was kind of talking about that same theme. So like if he felt like the theme was like racism, then he would be like this song that I know of also talks about racism. So here's how I think it like could connect to the book. so that was also really cool.

Tami: 17:02

is super cool. We love a good book, playlist and I've noticed some authors have been doing that lately. So, we should share that with Dr. Hall. Maybe she could add his playlist. Did he put it on Spotify? Is that what he did? Or did

Kelly: 17:16

no, I think he made like a, like a PowerPoint. So it was kind of like a slide with like the song and then like kind of his explanation of it.

Tami: 17:24

Okay. Okay. Yeah. No, I love that. We could maybe make a little Spotify list of his and share it with Dr. Hall for him and see if she can add it. I love that. I know, wouldn't that be awesome?

Kelly: 17:37

Yeah.

Tami: 17:38

I would love that. Dr. Hall, hopefully you're listening and you want to use his playlist to market your book, because people connect with music, right? Art and music really, you know, um, yeah. And this is why art and music is so important to keep in our schools. Side plug, right there. Okay, so important.

Kelly: 17:59

absolutely. And I just felt like I appreciated it so much because it showed me I felt like it made their like reflections so much more like raw and real. They obviously are writing a lot of papers in this class because it's a dual credit class. And sometimes I'm just okay, I just feel like I don't get them in the paper always, like, obviously, they're, they're doing those historical thinking skills, they're analyzing sources, they're helping, they're using that to, like, answer a question or whatever they're doing in the paper. But I feel like sometimes it misses, them and what, they are actually learning from the process. So that's kind of why I'm happy that I went with the NSA, because it just kind of gave a different perspective that I wasn't necessarily seeing in any other way in the class.

Tami: 18:40

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that because really, how and where are we providing space for students to bring in There are ways of knowing and being and acting in the world with what we're asking them to do and to show, right? So that balance between, sometimes there are certain ways we need to do something, but sometimes we have an opportunity such as this to allow a little more creativity and, and freedom. So curious. Yes, as you kind of think about the course and it's over at this point, what, what are some of the things you heard from your students? What are some particular highlights for yourself?

Kelly: 19:38

So, the course ended in December, but I'm doing a new semester of it. So I get to do it all over again, with a new group of students. I did notice that, they had to do a, what do you call it in college when you like rate the course at the end, uh, course evaluation. so they did have to do that and then I got access to like what they had written later and like almost every single one of them were like, I really liked that book we read. So, like, it was literally between, like, I took this class because I like Ms. Shrems, and then they were like, I really like that book. And I was like, it's funny that not a single one of them said anything about my lectures, or, you know, the papers they wrote. I was like, it was all the book. Um,

Tami: 20:20

But, okay, let's be honest. Do you, do you are like, Oh, that lecture was so

Kelly: 20:25

right, no, that's my point. It's like, when they leave the class, like, that is not what I'm expecting them to remember. Because, That's just, the academic skill of going to school and listening versus, like, actually engaging with, a text and, actually engaging with, like, the history and doing it in a way that, allows them a chance to actually reflect on, like, what did I learn? What actually matters to me in that book? Um, I felt like that was why that experience was what they're going to leave the class like thinking about just because it's so much more personal than like a lot of the other activities we can do and we do do as teachers, um, those things are important too, but often it's not what students like reflect on later.

Tami: 21:10

Oh,

Kelly: 21:10

glad I did it because Yeah,

Tami: 21:13

Yeah. And that fosters right that that community building and that and that passion for the learning. Right. And it makes Learners in this case, look at history a little differently and from a different perspective from maybe they did before, almost really getting into a better understanding because it has that personal connection with the why, like, why these primary source documents are important. Why hearing and understanding and knowing different person's viewpoints of historical events is important because. Right, they're sitting in this classroom, you've built this community, and they're seeing these 16 different perspectives of the exact same text come out, and I would imagine, if I have to guess, I haven't looked at your projects, right? But I'm going to guess that each of them didn't choose the same piece of the book to reflect on. They all kind of probably chose something a little bit unique.

Kelly: 22:11

yeah, definitely. Um, especially the ones that created their own, specifically like the artwork type of pieces or like the drawing type of pieces, those I feel like really showed like the individualism in like what aspects of the book they like really connected with. Um, again, there was the girl who the artwork. Decided to go with well, every single chapter, here's what I thought. And then there was this other girl who took it in the direction of wow, like I feel so small now. There's all these other people like looking at me. This is what happens in the world. And I'm just this person who's like, oh my God, I had no idea. Um, so it's just so interesting how they went in so many different directions.

Tami: 22:54

Yeah, yeah. So, definitely some highlights. Sounds like the un essay project, the unexpected connections of students talking, like no way. I do love that. I do love that part. Because even I, the Lloyd's of London part, I was like, Huh? No, that's not okay. I mean, and you and I talked about it too. I was just like, no, that's just not okay. And if you haven't read the book, this is just, again, you should just need to, you just need to read it. And then, you know, we can have a little book group or something cause I would love to chat with this book more cause I love it. Um, so lessons learned planning, you know, you took some risks. There's always the first time you teach. Anything, right? It never goes exactly the way you planned, usually. Um, so, what did you want to keep going into this semester? What did you shift? What is kind of your hope as you're trying round two?

Kelly: 23:54

Yeah, so I'm definitely going to be doing the book again. Um, I feel like that is like definitely going to stay a staple. And I feel like I knew that from the beginning. Like, it was an engaging enough book that I thought that if I was going to implement it, I just had good feelings about it. I knew that that was going to engage teenagers. Um, so I don't necessarily think it's shocking that I'm, I want to keep going with the book. but I think you did bring up an interesting point about like maybe trying out some like different ways of reading it. Maybe do like some groupings, maybe do some type of like reflection activities. I obviously went really like simple with it the first time of like, all right, let's just sit, let's read, let's talk about these questions. And it just kind of like ended up having organic conversation. but I think there could be some more creative ways that I could go about that. then I feel like the NSA, I do want to keep doing that. I did, obviously, like, there were a couple that Oh, I feel like this kid could like, come up with something better. There were some times where I was like, man, I feel like this person made this in like, five seconds last night, you know, but I kind of knew that going into the project Not everything is going to be perfect. Um, but I felt like it was worth that kind of risk. Um, especially because it's very, it's a very like open ended project. I know, sometimes I'm the teacher that wants very clear, here is the rubric. You have to do this and this and this. So the fact that it wasn't like that is what made me kind of anxious well, how am I, how do I want to breed this? Like if a kid turns in something that like, I wasn't expecting. Um, but to be honest, like I figured it out and like, I was able to like, talk to kids and I was able to ask when did you, like, why did you create this? Why did you do this? Like, and I just feel like it ended up being okay when I had all these concerns about these things that like, didn't matter in the end. You know what I'm

Tami: 25:39

Right?

Kelly: 25:40

So I feel like the lesson learned is even when you're anxious about something, and even when you don't have like all the answers in the beginning of like, this is how I'm going to grade it, this is what I'm expecting, this is what I think kids are going to do. Like, do it anyway, because you never know, is kind of what I learned from the process. So I'm definitely going to do it again. Um, yeah, and I guess we'll just kind of see where it goes from here.

Tami: 26:05

Yeah, no. You know, and I think that's powerful advice. Because I think sometimes in the education profession, we feel like we need to have all the answers or know all the things and we don't, right? we too can figure it out as, as we go. And I think it's especially important when your heart and intent is really in the right place. of walking through that, and also, what a powerful model for students, right?, here am, this adult person in front of you, um, leading you in some way, but I'm also admitting to you that there are certain things that I don't know, and I'm willing to take risks. So, we get to model taking risks and sharing and trying things for students, too.

Kelly: 26:52

Absolutely, and it kind of tying back into like, Earlier, you had mentioned, sometimes people,, don't give teenagers the credit. Like, I felt like afterwards, I had caught myself doing that. I had all these anxieties about, like, what if they don't take it seriously? And, I don't really feel like that happened that much. I was decently happy with, everything that was produced. I had some questions for some kids, but, I don't know. I kind of reflected on it. why did I think it was gonna go bad? why did I think the whole class wasn't gonna take it seriously and turn it in? Why should I have those fears? so yeah, it's just kind of like, I should have believed in them from the beginning. I knew that this was a class that was gonna take this book seriously. I, just from the personalities in the class, I knew that a lot of them were gonna connect to it. So then why did I have these, like, negative thoughts? I'm not really sure why. but definitely I'm glad I did it, because I was able to kind of disprove myself in

Tami: 27:44

Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful. That's powerful. I feel like my personal challenge to educators out there that are like, Ooh, I don't know if I can do that. If you're, if you're on this, like, I'm anxious, all these things could happen. Ask yourself, but what if, what if it went well, what are all the things and also challenge yourself, right. To like articulate all the things that could go amazing when it goes, right. Cause sometimes we can be, what is that called? Where you. Um, are predicting something bad is going to happen, so then it comes to fruition. What is that called? You know what I'm talking about?

Kelly: 28:19

I know what you're saying, but I can't think of the word.

Tami: 28:21

Um, Okay.

Kelly: 28:23

you're manifesting it, like, you're saying something bad is gonna happen, and then, like, it all falls apart, because you didn't have confidence to begin with.

Tami: 28:29

Yeah, yeah, there's a word. I can't remember the word either. It's eluding me today, but y'all know what it is. I know, you know, you're like nodding your head as you're listening to me right now. You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that thing. Okay, so don't get sucked into that thing. Like, listen to what Kelly just shared with you, right? Move forward despite the anxiousness, right? And I think that that is true Not only with when we're choosing text, but in equity work in general, right? Like moving forward while you're still not sure and growing and uncomfortable because of the marathon that is the journey to build this community like you've been doing, right? So I'm sure some people are like, oh, but you already knew these students. Well, she she did. Because she built this community so they want to continue and sign up for new learning opportunities, right? like that's super powerful and if you don't Then how do you build and foster the community within your classroom as you're getting to know them to open up space? For them to show you them true selves, right? Because that's what that tells me like you have someone painting you a picture with all these eyes looking at her That is a really deep personal vulnerable project To share with you, you know, and when we are, and I've said this so many times, but I really do believe this when we show up as our truest and most authentic self. Whether that's as a teacher, a student,, it, it gives other people the space to do that, too.

Kelly: 29:52

Yeah, and I think I feel like the thing that allowed my students to do that is that,, I was very, like, real with them throughout the process, too. I even explained to them before we read the book, guys, I want to read this with you because this is a book that I read, and I was, like, Oh my god, I'm so, like, frustrated, but also confused, but I have so many questions. And I'm like, guys, like, I felt that way after reading this book, and I have gone to an archive and tried to find sources. Like, not on the scale that Dr. Hall has, but like, I have done that. So, like, I knew that it was kind of a thing, and yet, still reading this book, like, I was still so, flabbergasted at the end. Like, like, so. So much to, like, think about and take in concerning, academia, the world, like, how history works, like, who is researching it, and how do we find these things, it just, it really, like, impacted me, and I explained that to my students, and I kind of saw, like, the shift in them, like, ooh, okay, like, Mishra was feeling like, learn something, so, like, maybe we'll learn something, um, so, yeah, I just feel like sharing with them that, like, I want to do this with you because it's something that, like, I'm actually excited about, I feel like that's what made the difference in the experience.

Tami: 31:03

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Your passion ignites passion and joy in your classroom, is what I hear that. That's awesome. Yes. You're like, yeah, I do that. Yes, you do, ma'am. You can claim it. Claim it.. Because you do. So, I mean, I know you already kind of gave, you know, a tip and next steps and like next steps you're gonna keep, keep on this, this journey, but anything else that you feel like You want to share about your course or, um, this work coming up?

Kelly: 31:41

Um, I guess I just want to repeat, I've said it, but I want to repeat one more time because I am the teacher that comes up with an idea. And then I like shy away from it because I'm like, no, what if that goes bad? What if this, what if this, I'm like, I talk myself out of a lot of things. So I just want to like, once again, say a million times that, just do the thing, like, just try it, no matter what type of teacher you are, if you are a history teacher, if you are a science teacher, if you are a elementary teacher, an ESL teacher, whatever you are, like, just try it. And even if it doesn't go well, then, you make changes and you do it differently, or maybe you scrap it and you come up with a new idea. It, it doesn't, in the end, it doesn't matter as long as you are showing your students that you are trying. and obviously, like when it does work and when you do feel like it was a good experience, then it's like, like you kind of said, like, it is that much better. Um, so yeah, like, just do it. Just do the thing. Just try the thing. See if it works and then keep moving whether it does or not.

Tami: 32:42

Absolutely. Absolutely. I, I agree with that 100%. So like Dory, just keep swimming, right?

Kelly: 32:49

literally.

Tami: 32:50

Just keep going. Just keep going.

Kelly: 32:52

is not teaching, then I don't know what is. Because that is what teaching is.

Tami: 32:59

Absolutely. Absolutely. And every day is unknown. We, we, we do this work with humans. And all the humans we connect with day to day are different. We all have different days ourselves as educators, you know, students year to year. So there's always something. Different that's going to be going on. So I think your advice is amazing. Like, just do it. Just try it. Just go for it, reflect on it and change it. If you need to scrap it, if it's okay to let it go, you know, if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got. Right? And so, you know, are you feeling joy? Are your students feeling joy? Are you connecting with them? Are they seeing themselves in what you're teaching and engaging them with or having opportunity to share? I think all great points. I'm so glad we got to get a recap of how it went because I also just adore and love this book. It's just so thought provoking. Um, have to read it again because you know, there's no, there's always something you miss the first time, right? On a graphic novel. And I'm sure you're thinking like, Oh, yeah, there's some things I noticed.

Kelly: 34:06

absolutely noticed that. Like, I kind of paused at some points while reading it. And I was like, oh. I don't think I realized that that was part of it last time. Um, but yeah, definitely.

Tami: 34:15

Yeah, yeah. So the power, the power of rereading. So, we hope you all take the advice. Just do it. Just try it. Just go for it. We would love to hear, I would love to hear more about what you're doing and perhaps have you on the show as well to share what you're doing with other educators. Cause that's really my whole goal is to share with the amazing things that educators are doing. so please remember to like, subscribe and rate. On your local podcast provider. And thank you so much for joining us for our latest episode. Thank you, Kelly, for coming back. It was so good to speak with you again.

Kelly: 34:49

It was really nice to be back again. I enjoyed it.