Beyond the Surface: Building Intentional Inclusivity

In this episode, Dr. Tami Dean is joined by Julye Williams, founder of Project 2043 Institute, a visionary organization preparing communities for a multiracial and inclusive future. Together, they explore the shifting demographics of America and the intentional actions needed to create equity in schools, workplaces, and communities. Julye shares her journey from corporate America to founding a school and leading a movement toward inclusive practices, all framed by her powerful motto: "Don’t be afraid to go out on a limb—that’s where the fruit is."

They also discuss the importance of understanding generational diversity in the workforce, actionable steps for inclusivity, and the critical role of awareness in social justice. Tune in to learn how to start with learning, embrace growth, and act for meaningful change.

• Follow @Dragonflyrisingllc on Instagram for updates and episode highlights.
• Subscribe to Julye Williams' newsletter at Project2043.com for tools and resources on building inclusive communities.
• Download Dr. Tami Dean’s free awareness resource to kickstart your equity journey.

Coaching Discovery Call

Discovery Call

Transcript

Tami: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of the equity hour. I am so excited. You are here with us today and I am super pumped to introduce our guests for our episode today. I have with me, Julye Williams. And Julye is a visionary founder of the Project 2043 Institute, a US based organization dedicated to preparing organizations for an inclusive, equitable, and diverse multiracial society.

With a career rooted in education and program development, Julye co founded an elementary school and a nonprofit impacting thousands of teachers and students. Her motto, don't ever be afraid to go out on a limb. That's where the fruit is reflects her commitment to making a difference across industries.

Julye, I'm so excited. Welcome.

Julye Williams (she/her): Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

Dr: I am so happy to be here. Like you, you've done so many things like this just amazing. Absolutely.[00:01:00]

Julye Williams (she/her): The way life, life's journey, you never can really predict it, I say.

Dr: But I love that. Right. Don't be afraid to go out on a limb. Like that's where the fruit is. I love that. That reminds me of that Take the first step, even in, in fear, even though if you're not quite sure what I'm doing, like it's along those same lines, but I like this idea of the fruit, right?

Cause know, you plant a seed and then the fruit grows and all this stuff. Yeah.

Julye Williams (she/her): Absolutely.

Dr: I'm feeling that I'm that I'm steal that. I'm going to be like my friend, Julye, this is her motto and I love it. I love it. Okay. So, so excited, um, to talk about all the great things that you do.

Um, I want to dive into project 2043 in just a minute, but, um, as you know, we always start each episode with. Where everyone gets to share a little bit around their personal equity and social justice journey. And I know this is, this is my philosophy that this is a marathon and [00:02:00] it's a constant process.

And I know you feel the same. And so I really like us to share that to just kind of show that we are all in this process together. And it's not. Always looking the same for everyone from person to person. So I would love to hear a little bit about your journey.

Julye Williams (she/her): Yeah, so, um, I can share, I'll, I'll try to keep my, uh, what, what can be a very long story, uh, brief.

Dr: I feel that. Oh

Julye Williams (she/her): I, so I went to Florida A& M University, and when I graduated, I took a position in pharma. I was working in the pharma industry in marketing. And, uh, they were making a whole lot of money, of course. And, uh, one year, Three gentlemen, they wrote the book, The Pact, , they call themselves the Three Doctors.

They came and spoke to the Black Employee Alliance and they talked about their childhood growing up in Newark during the crack epidemic. [00:03:00] And, they talked about how children in, you know, in their home city don't know, or didn't know what a project. manager was or how they didn't know that you could be a nurse and not walk and not work in a hospital.

 They talked about, you know, their goal as children was to be the manager at McDonald's because that's who they saw. And when I heard that, you know, they challenged everyone in the room. They said, you've got to be more visible. Children don't know you exist. They don't know your life is even a possibility.

And so It was so, it just resonated so deeply with me, that I ultimately, found my way to joining an educational startup in New York city, where I was able to, work with schools and set up afterschool tutoring programs and, you know, just really got a leap into, you know, how could I be more visible?

How could I, you know, do something that, , can help support. You know, children who don't [00:04:00]know, the life that's so normal to me at the time was even possible. So I would say that's kind of how my journey started. And of course, once I got to New York and started working in public schools, and I saw a whole lot of inequity.

And so I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah. This is, this is, this is where I'm gonna, this is where I'm going to go out on that limb and try to find some and try to, to make a difference.

Dr: my gosh. That's so powerful, right? That the representation matters and being able to see the possibility of what is possible, right? Like beyond the scope of what you've ever known. And I think that that is so important. And for me, that even ties back to not only the visibility of people doing the work right now, but the texts and books that we allow to be available or that get published and get written, like, While I'm super [00:05:00] not happy about the book bans that have been happening, I am hopeful in the trajectory of what I've been seeing coming out, like in children's literature and, you know, young adult and middle grades, like there's just such a better representation.

Like I'm seeing this shift from when like I started as an educator. And I know those things certainly didn't really exist when I was a kid, I can tell you. can tell you

Julye Williams (she/her): Agreed. A thousand Yeah.

Dr: Yeah. Yeah. But that's so powerful because I think it speaks to just being who you are, can help contribute to social justice and equity work because you can just your presence and sharing what you do.

Um, as I think sometimes people think it has to be a super big, You know, process or a big thing, but really it can be as simple as as that and getting involved in being visible, in your community with students. Yeah. [00:06:00] Yeah. So I'm really excited to talk about this project 2043 because I mean, I heard a little bit when I met you in Philly.

And so just, I think people are going to be surprised, but I want to know kind of like what you're laughing because you know, like they are, and it's great. What's coming? Um, so I know you did a number of things, but like what led you to really build the 2043 organization?

Julye Williams (she/her): So, um, it started when I saw a Census Bureau projection many years ago, probably well over a decade ago. And it said that, uh, it was a report and it basically said that, uh, the U. S. Census Bureau projects that by the year 2043, the majority of people living in the United States will identify as people of color. And I saw that now [00:07:00] for background or for context. I was leading. Um, by the time I really gotten into education. So I had co founded elementary school. It was leading it in Newark, New Jersey. And, uh, I saw that report and it just made me think about my kindergartners. And what would the world be like for them when they reached adulthood?

Would they be, you know, would they live in a world where so many of these historical inequities had been addressed? Would things just be more further entrenched? And it just really got me on this, um, you know, this, this thought train of, well, what does that mean? Like, this is never happening in the United States in terms of.

You know, becoming a country without or with the majority of people, the majority being people of color. And so I started to do, um, I left the, I ended up leaving the school, um, unfortunately because of burnout. [00:08:00] Um, and so I joined a nonprofit in DC where I was able to do a lot of work in, um, discussing and helping educators.

 Learn about how to create inclusive school, put school spaces and school, that are equitable. And so I started to do a lot more of that work and then soon realized, you know, it's, it's not just schools that need this type of support, and education and, and guidance. And so that's when project 2043 really took off as a way to support not only schools, but organizations across the board that are intentional.

About creating inclusive spaces.

Dr: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. And I think that word, um, intentional is, is really important. Cause I know I, I often see a lot of, um, performative type work because that intentionality. is missing. [00:09:00] And so, so when we say intentional, what does that look like for the organization to you?

Julye Williams (she/her): Well, it looks like a internal reflection on where they are,

Dr: Mm

Julye Williams (she/her): and it looks like commitment to taking action to get to a future point. And the acknowledgement that it's not a one and done anything, that it's journey.

Dr: Yeah.

Julye Williams (she/her): um, when I see that I get excited. Because it's, you know, it's. There's so much more to creating an inclusive space than, you know, I was, I was talking to a friend yesterday and, you know, about, you know, so many things that people do, example, you know, food, [00:10:00] right, like diverse, a food diversity day, or, know, You know, things along those lines.

And it's like, yeah, that's, that's great. It's, you know, I'm not knocking it at all. But when we think about creating an inclusive workplace, it is far more than sharing cuisine. And so, um, so I, I do get excited when organizations are, are at that point, um, and ready to, you know, to take action. And, and typically they come to me when they're like, okay.

We just had an assessment or we we know we've got things to work on. Um, how can you help us? Get to the next point, or what might be the next, you know, several points we need to consider as our as our milestones on the way to this journey and can you help us get there. So those are the types of clients I just truly enjoy working with.

Dr: Oh, absolutely. So what, what I hear you saying, right? So we're moving beyond this very surface level around what is [00:11:00] inclusivity? Which again, is great. As long as we're, you know, not narrowing people down to a stereotype, right? Uh, just gotta throw that caveat out there. But this awareness that I hear you saying these people are coming to you with, like an acknowledgment of we're not doing what we're supposed to be doing.

It completely right. We want to do better. We're investing in going to make that better. And investment to me is like, you're talking about, it's not a one and done. So that's time. It sounds like financial investment, right? And I would guess you didn't say this, but I'm guessing that it's the leaders of this organization that are coming.

So the people that are able to put the change in place. Are the ones coming and asking these questions to you.

Julye Williams (she/her): Yeah, yeah, it's part of their strategy. [00:12:00] Mm

Dr: makes me excited. Like for real, like, it really does. There's so much possibility for growth when you're willing to admit that there are things. There's no expectation that you're doing everything right.

But when you could admit and have an awareness around opportunities for growth, like the doors just open to possibilities for you as well as the people within your organization. 

Right. And people talk a lot about the sense of, you know, belonging. And, and this is how you do that because you get an awareness of the value of the individuality that everyone brings to the table versus a sense of belonging being you fit in this box of what we believe everyone in this organization is supposed to look like.

Julye Williams (she/her): hmm. Mm hmm.

Dr: And [00:13:00] yeah, I was just talking, um, with another guest the other day and she was saying you could be in a space that celebrates who you are versus punishing you. for who you are.

Julye Williams (she/her): yeah, yeah.

Dr: that's, that's super powerful. So

Julye Williams (she/her): It reminds me of this quote I saw and this is not these are not my words. And I cannot remember the name of the person who said it. But it was along the lines of there's a difference in saying you are welcome versus this was designed with you in mind. Right.

Dr: absolutely.

Julye Williams (she/her): And I think a lot of times it, the tendency can be to say, Oh, well, everybody's welcome. But there's a difference between saying you're welcome here versus no, we actually designed this so that you would feel included so that people no matter their identity would feel included. That's a different [00:14:00] intentionality.

It's a different, I think, state of mind

Dr: hmm.

Julye Williams (she/her): to create those types of spaces.

Dr: Oh yeah, absolutely. I love that. I love that. And when we think about the end of the majority coming, right in 2043, how does, that fact influence some of the work you do with these organizations?

Julye Williams (she/her): Well, great. I love that question. So it, it influences my work in, in several ways. So one of the things I often talk about, um, is changing demographics, you know, why are demographics changing? Where are we seeing the greatest changes? And so if we look across, And this is specific to race. However, you know, there are many other aspects to having an inclusive society.

Many other characteristics that we [00:15:00] have, um, that are incredibly important to producing that. And so, one of the things that I talk about is the impact These, these demographics shifts are going to have on what I see are three areas. Um, I think it's going to impact our staff. So the people we hire, the people who are on our teams who are delivering the work, right, we can look at Gen Z or, you know, yeah, Gen Z right now.

And, you know, Gen Alpha coming after, like it's, I think Gen Z, if I'm not mistaken, is the last generation to have any group in the racial majority, to have Any racial group in the majority. After that, when we're looking at Gen Alpha, um, there will not be any racial group in the majority for that coming generation. Um, and that's basically, people 11 years old and younger. This is the newest generation. So there's the staff. So who's going to be delivering the work, right? What does [00:16:00] that look like in terms of an inclusive workplace for folks across identities? Um, then there are the services. And the products that we're producing.

So if you know how, how well are we taking into account the needs of the community when we have various services, you know, are they going to meet the needs of a diverse community, more diverse community. And then we look at the, wait a minute, the, the staff, the service, and then the consumers. So who is going to be buying these products?

Uh, who is going to be, you know, purchasing these services? And one great example I often give is that within the, is, is the theater industry. So theater historically has been, uh, predominantly, Uh, the patrons have predicted, have predominantly been older and white, uh, in the theater industry. [00:17:00] Um, and I have several theater clients who know that's not a strategy for longevity, right?

Dr: Right.

Julye Williams (she/her): you gotta do something. You're trying to be here in another 50 years, right? So, now, I think we're starting to see theaters really, really zero in on, you Their services and, you know, their offerings. So what types of performances and plays are they producing? Who's writing them? Who's acting in them? Uh, who are the patrons?

Who, who are funding this work? Um, and then also who is in their staff that is helping to create experiences that are You know, engaging to audiences that they may not have really focused on in the past. And so that's just kind of one thing that I get really excited about as we talk about changing demographics for organizations is really looking at, okay, well, who's going to be doing the work?

What are we offering? And then who's going to be buying this? And I think we need to look at that through [00:18:00] a lens of how do the identities of the people today, how might that compare 20 years from now,

Dr: Yeah.

Julye Williams (she/her): are the same things we're doing today going to be desirable for people with the such a different makeup of our society.

I think there's going to be some changes needed. Yes. Yes.

Dr: I mean, I think that's what society does, right? It evolves. And if it, it doesn't evolve, you, you get lost. It makes me think of, um, gosh, I don't even know if this is a great example, but you know how Blockbuster went under. Because they didn't. Was it Netflix? I think that like, cause Netflix, right?

Like I used to get the, the DVDs in the mail. Like that's they started out. And then it streaming and they're like, Oh, that's never going to stick. Right. And then where, where, where's Blockbuster? I mean, there's that one like iconic one, like, yeah, wherever it is. Think I watched a documentary on that, [00:19:00] but me, that's right.

Like that's that same thing. Or what I talk with, I talk with educators about what are the. What is the way that people need to think? And , I work a lot with literacy and literacy educators and they get stuck on when kids need dictionary skills. I'm like, do they though? Yeah. at your face.

See, exactly. ? I'm like, when is the last time you opened a dictionary? You don't open a dictionary anymore. Nobody opens a dictionary anymore. You, you, you type it into the virtual dictionary. That's a different skillset. And it's okay. Let it go. I wrote, God, I'm going to sound really old right now.

When I say this, I wrote my college applications on a typewriter, like an electric typewriter, right? I to type it into the document.

Julye Williams (she/her): Yes.

Dr: appreciate that. You know what I'm saying?

Julye Williams (she/her): I did the same.

Dr: right. They're like, you did what I was like, well, it just, Look, look, in my heart, I'm still like [00:20:00] 24, you know, um, we need to shift and think about how can we use these changes in positive ways to come together as a community, as an organization, as a whatever it is, and, and, and value the people that are there. Um, but I, I, I see this tension. Right? Already. And I'm sure you do with the work you do. Like, I see it in schools.

I see it in organize companies, right? Like, there's this push between, well, this is what we've always done. And people are asking, you know, why? But, but why? Like that doesn't make any sense. And so when I hear you talking about the three things you think about, to me, that's strategic and it's strategy and it's being intentional, which just speaks to my love language.

Cause [00:21:00] I'm such a strategy systems girl. Like I'll be like, um, but why that doesn't make any sense. So I, this might be a good place. Cause I know you've done some work with the multi generational workforce. too. Right, because I'm just thinking about some of these questions people are asking. They're like, do we need to, do I need to sit at my desk from nine to five if I've already got my work done?

So, let's talk a little bit about that. 'cause, you know, yeah, I feel like some generations are getting a really bad rap and I don't know that they should be. I think they're asking some great questions.

Julye Williams (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. I was going to, I was going to bring that up because I think that, you know, that holding on like going back to Blockbuster, like holding on, we're going to be the best VHS company ever. Right. Okay, you do that, right? But we're, we're, we're moving on. And, [00:22:00] you know, we think about multi generational workplaces, you know, there's I often, you know, talk about there right now, four generations in the workplace.

You've got baby boomers, um, who were, you know, honestly, you know, who came of age during the civil rights era, right? There was still Jim Crow laws in effect when many of them were, , growing up, they, you know, experienced television was their big technological revolution and seeing the world beyond their neighborhood.

And, you know, so that was big for the baby boomers who experienced this concept of you had to earn the right. to contribute when they were in, when they were working, right? Like you couldn't just walk in with an idea. No, you had to earn the right to contribute. And that's kind of the mentality, um, and the experience that many have had in that, in that generation.

You've got Gen X, uh, I'm Gen X, right? We're Gen X. so, you know, high independence, Right. Latchkey kids [00:23:00] were left home, told to go outside, like a whole lot of independence in terms of being

Dr: whole lot. Absolutely,

Julye Williams (she/her): Figure it out is what we did.

Dr: absolutely.

Julye Williams (she/her): And that's just what it was. And, you know, and being in between this analog and early digital era. Right. I remember my first email address. I was in high school. Right. So, you know, just, you know, that kind of Attitude of a lot of Gen X is, you know, you figure it out and you just get it done. Um, and then you have millennials who, uh, were the digital natives and who experienced helicopter parents, right?

Where the millennials were the center of the family. Everything revolved around their. Um, upbringing for many of them, right? Not everyone, of course, but you know, their self esteem and their confidence, all these things were highly cultivated. And so when they come to the workplace, that's what they know. [00:24:00] So why am I not getting, but why didn't you, you know, the, where's my feedback and, you know, the, the, the compliment, like that's because that's what they grew up with and then you have. Gen Z, who, you know, is the youngest group in the workplace, who has grown up seeing people, you know, make millions on TikTok, on YouTube.

So this whole idea of, you know, you can work somewhere for 30 years is like, what? That doesn't make any sense. And so you've got all these generations now in the workplace. And you know, it's like, well, the way we've always done it, but yeah, but why?

Dr: right.

Julye Williams (she/her): just because I'm asking why doesn't mean it's, you know, I'm, I actually really want to know.

Because the way I just, you know, I just got out of school and my projects allow me to do A, B and C. And so why are we still doing it this way here? So, you know, the need for these generations to come together and really see each other [00:25:00] as You know, from an asset based lens, as opposed to a threat, I think is really important because what we see is when people come together, you need folks from different perspectives to really make something thrive like you benefit when you have that diversity of thought.

It's just how do we come together when so much of our, you know, worldview, um, has been informed by our upbringing, right? And so that's, that's one of the big challenges with the multi generational workplace. Mm

Dr: yeah, I can see that because the

Julye Williams (she/her): hmm, mm

Dr: I think a lot of times depending on which generation you are the question of why for understanding gets seen as challenging or combative Rather than a question about help me understand so I can, you know, think about it and process that, you know, and [00:26:00] quite honestly, if it doesn't make sense, I'm going to say, well, that doesn't make sense.

Um, right, and that's interesting because when you talk about independence and I'll just talk about myself later, cause I'm a Gen Xer and I, I have a team and I lead a team and you know, that idea of independence, right? I'm like, y'all got like. I am not a micromanager, right, at all, because I'm like, y'all got it.

Now I will help. I will help. I will assist. I will collaborate. I will do all those things if you need it, but I'm going to need you to tell me you need it. Like I can notice when they're a little, you know, when I'm like, Ooh, are you okay? Like I notice those things. I'm not a micromanager where I feel like I've been in spaces where, um, maybe the baby boomer, a little bit micromanaging, like, tell me everything you did, I need to check everything.

I need, I'm [00:27:00] like, you're like, wait, what? Like you hired me like, well, at least my perspective is I'm like, you hired me to do a whole job. Because of my experience and criteria. So I'm going to need you to let me do that. Like that independence part. Like I'm just now clicking for me that I'm like, you said you liked X, Y, and Z about what I do.

 I do that because I'm highly independent and self sufficient and functional.

Julye Williams (she/her): hmm, mm

Dr: So I'm going to need you to let me do that because you trying to check in on me, like every 0. 5 seconds, it doesn't work for me.

Julye Williams (she/her): hmm, mm hmm. And then contrast that with, you know, a millennial who is looking for the feedback, right? Who's like, am I on the right track? Is this, is this right? Tell me, you know, and, and if someone is distant, then they're kind of like, oh, I Well, I don't know how I'm doing. And, you know, so it's like, but those are different things that we just got to be able to talk about.

Yeah.

Dr: absolutely. Now, if [00:28:00] you want me to look at them and give you feedback, I am happy to do that, but I don't have to.

Julye Williams (she/her): Mm hmm.

Dr: Oh my gosh.

Julye Williams (she/her): Right.

Dr: Oh, but I think, oh gosh, there's just so much, there's so much value of that. Like, and you think about the, I think about the layering, right? The layering of the diversity and the inclusion and then the generational. Experiences and expectations for the different generations. Humans are just so complex, right?

And I think that's one of the most important things as we think about, building inclusivity and social justice is when we try to isolate or narrow things down into a very simplistic way, we miss the, the nuance and the complexity that's so important and essential to. Really including someone and seeing them in their [00:29:00] full humanity. You know, um, I mean, I know you know that, but I

Julye Williams (she/her): Yeah.

Dr: I always just think about that,

Julye Williams (she/her): Yes. Yeah. The

Dr: we sometimes think everything has like a very simple solution. You're like, no, right. But it, it does it because, and then on top of that, right, we have the historical and systemic structures in our society that are in place that are also influencing, um, those things, whether we know them or not.

Julye Williams (she/her): isms, the phobias. Yeah.

Dr: hmm. Mm hmm. All of those. Mm hmm. The, The privilege unearned or earned, right? Like all of those, all of those things. Oh my gosh. Okay. So [00:30:00] as we think about the work you do at Project 2043, I know we've talked about this a little bit, but you have a very specific philosophy that again, just speaks to my heart.

I feel like we're just kindred spirits here. Um, Oh, like for real. I love, I just, you know what, that is my favorite thing. Um, is just finding, and I think this is a really important, this is not what I was about to say, but you know, this is Squirrel, um, like community and in this work, like finding community and finding people that you can connect with and engage with this work with, right?

So I just, I, I think the, the, The community you live in, but then also how you build the community around you to grow as a, as a person in this work. So, um, that just made me think about that. Right. Like, cause, you know, like, and [00:31:00] being open to finding this community. Right. So I just think that's really important.

And I share that because, you know, I didn't know Julye till audience. I just want you to know. I didn't know her until I went to one of her sessions and then I, I walked up to her and just introduced myself. So good, go out on a limb and there's the fruit. So are talking, you go out on a limb saying, come be my podcast, Julye. Um, okay. But for real, I feel like we're kindred spirits. You have a really great philosophy at Project 2043, the Learn, Grow, Act. And one, I think that's, it just takes care of all the things.

So let's talk a little bit that.

Julye Williams (she/her): Yeah, like, you know, it's interesting when I was coming up with, you know, how I wanted to encapsulate the work that we do or [00:32:00] the, not even the work that we do, but how we support the people we engage with. It came to, I mean, it was, it was near instantaneous, um, learn, grow, act. And it's because. And I'm sure you've been in this experience to you, you meet someone, you meet an organization, and they know there's a challenge.

And they're already talking about what they're going to do about it. And you're like, hold up. Do we hold up. Do we do we actually know why this challenge exists. Have we, have we unpacked anything to see how we got to where we are or why we're here, why we haven't changed, um, since whenever, you know, and so I, I like to take folks on a journey of what I call learn, grow, act, because so many times, what I have found is that people will rush to take an action and then later realize it's actually not.[00:33:00]

The right action or the most effective action, or they should have talked to the people who are already doing the action to see what they were up to. Right. And so. Um, and it, I feel like it in many ways it's, informed by Dr. Barbara J. Love's liberatory consciousness framework, where she has the four A's, awareness, analysis, Action and accountable allyship.

So she takes it actually a step further where you're not and this is more so for social justice, where it's not just action, but now how are you going to be an accountable ally. And so, for me and the work that we do, we guide people along a journey of learning. So we can understand why we're even talking about this, why it's important.

And then we can grow together so we can start to expand our lens and how we see things. We can expand our awareness. We can understand problems or challenges at a deeper level. And then we can say, all right, so [00:34:00] now given all this, What are some of those things that we could do that would help us get to the transformation we're seeking?

And that, I find, is a far more, uh, effective, long lasting approach than the just let's jump in and do something by Friday.

Dr: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. That goes back to the why, right? When people don't know why an action is happening, and it feels very disconnected, it just feels disconnected and disjointed and, um, they're not on board. And then. You know, you only have a very small percentage trying to make the action happen.

Julye Williams (she/her): Mm

Dr: Right. And then you're trying to like pull these people along. Right. And, and it's. It makes it harder when you go out of order [00:35:00] and then you end up abandoning it. Right. They're like, Oh, well that didn't work. We've tried, you know, and I, and I feel like that's what happens. And then you can get, Oh, what's the word I'm looking for?

Like, I feel like in the organization, people can be like, Oh, we've done this before,

Julye Williams (she/her): Yes.

Dr: um, some apathy around whatever it is you're trying to do when you do it out of order. So really, Go ahead.

Julye Williams (she/her): I was gonna say one thing I often say is a lot of people come to this work in the same way that like going to a movie, and you're 45 minutes late, and you're looking at the screen and you're like, why are these people mad? Why are these people over here? And all you know is where you are in the moment.

So you just, you know, well, I think, you know, they're right. And it's like, actually, we don't know how this thing started. So let's pause and really understand how we got here. That way we can, you know, better understand what's going to take for us to truly be inclusive and [00:36:00] equitable to move forward. We have to understand how things started.

 I think it's just really important. So yeah. And I think doing that can help and I've seen it help to, Reduce the, we've done this before because now we understand, oh, wait a minute. Okay. This is what we're actually solving for. This is what we're actually trying to, it gives so much greater context when have the, they can start from the beginning of the movie.

Dr: absolutely. That awareness. It always starts with awareness, everyone. Starts, starts with awareness. And I'm just going to do a little plug. I actually have a free resource you can download around awareness so you can get started. Go Go get it. Go get it. Okay. All right, Julye. Um, and yes, and you all, by the way, you need to go check out the show notes because I'm going to link to all of Julye's connections and you can go get connected with Project 2043 to get your organization on the right track. [00:37:00] But Julia, it has been such a pleasure talking with you today. And I usually like to try to end our conversation with some, you know, next steps, a tip for people that are looking to do this work. So what would you, what would be your tip or advice?

Julye Williams (she/her): I would offer two tips. One, I would say, um, you can join our newsletter because we do talk about these things on a monthly basis. So we share resources that we've been reading, watching, and listening to, which I think people find really helpful. Um, the other tip I would say if you're looking to Create a more inclusive space.

It's something you said earlier about community, and I always encourage people to expand where they're getting information from. So, [00:38:00] if you look at your, uh, social media diet. You're not on social media, your news diet, like wherever you're getting your information from, I would encourage people to look for, contributors with identities that they don't typically follow.

Um, whether it is a trans journalist, whether it is someone from a rural community, whether it is, you know, someone from a different background, but to really Be open to hearing the voices of people in communities that you're not a part of, um, I think can really help us as we think to be more inclusive, because the more we can understand our different stories and different perspectives, I think that can help us, you know, bite sized steps, right, uh, be more inclusive in a more intentional way.

Dr: Oh, I love that. I love that. Getting a variety of perspectives. Well, Julye, it has been such a pleasure talking with you today. [00:39:00] And listeners, I'm going to need you to go to the show notes so you can download the awareness resource. You can click the link and sign up for Julye's email. newsletter, so you can find out all the things and help grow your understanding.

And I will, it was such a pleasure, everyone talking to you, talking to you, Julye, and I will talk to you all soon. Thank you.

Julye Williams (she/her): You're welcome. Bye.