Using Your Voice for Change

This week on The Equity Hour, Dr. Tami Dean sits down with Dr. Jerri Johnson, an educator and leader with a wealth of experience in equity and social justice work. Together, they discuss the challenges and triumphs of navigating systemic inequities in education and beyond.

Key topics include:

• The Journey Toward Equity: Dr. Johnson reflects on her transformation from a young teacher unaware of systemic inequities to a vocal advocate for change. 
• The Power of Voice: Discussing the courage it takes to speak truth to power. 
• Building Sustainable Systems: Insights on creating processes that last and ensure equity for all stakeholders. 
• Co-Parenting Insights: A glimpse into Dr. Johnson’s new Common Sense Co-Parenting podcast and the critical lessons learned in balancing the needs of children, parents, and educators.

Tune in to hear practical advice, inspiring stories, and a call to action for educators and leaders committed to systemic equity and social justice.

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Transcript

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Dr: Hello everyone, and welcome to a new episode of the equity hour with me, your host, Dr. Tami Dean. I am so excited again to bring you in another amazing guest. I have the pleasure today of talking with Dr. Jerry Johnson. Uh, she has a lifetime and career experience. In equity and a variety of roles, kind of like your girl here that we've talked about before, but really exciting is she's just launched her common sense co parenting podcast, which is something I know we all need because you know, my co parenting didn't go so hot, but that's a story for another day.

Uh, but anyway, Jerry, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you for having me Tami. I was excited. I am so excited because when you asked me to do it, I'm like, Uh, I don't know you a little bit big time, like, so, yes, I'm

feel big time. [00:01:00] I don't , we, we, we all just people out here in the world trying to, uh, get it right is what I feel like, but for that. I appreciate that. I appreciate that so much, so much. So I am so excited to talk to you too, because, um, I know you've done some amazing things. And as you know, one of the things I always start each of my guests.

is talking about their own sort of journey through equity and social justice work because it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. It's something to me that is a lifelong process. So while you can have people that are very skilled in it, I mean, using the word expert is a little challenging for me in this, in this work, just because I feel like we all are.

Have room to always grow and learn, um, in it. So I'll stop talking for now. And I [00:02:00] want to hear about you and a little bit about your journey.

So, um, I grew up, and some people may know this, some people may not, in St. Louis, Missouri. Um, considered to be the Bible belts, the middle of the country, one of the last states in this country to, abolish slavery. So, you can imagine the educational framework that I started in. All of my career has been in what you would call urban demographic schools, they may have been suburban.

Like placed, but there are been what you call urban demographic predominantly students of color and predominantly schools that were struggling or improvement, and we know, possibly why that may have been not necessarily because the academics of the students but because of the way schools are funded and things like that.

Right. So,

Systems and structures.

[00:03:00] Yes, so you can imagine the issues, the equitable issues, you know, equity issues that may have come up in in the districts that I've been in, uh, starting out as a teacher, though, didn't really recognize it, you know what I'm saying? Because I grew up in the system. Uh, it became my norm until I came outside of the system and started working within it, every day with other people's Children, and seeing how people treated other people's Children and all this type of stuff in the situations that parents were going through and all of that.

So my journey has been from that of a person who was, you know, didn't really, really recognize it, didn't want to recognize it because I grew up in a predominantly white, um, district that then turned predominantly [00:04:00] black once I got to middle school and high school. So those issues growing up, you kind of, as a kid, just.

You want to push those off and you just want to live life, right? You don't want to have to deal with any of that. Um, so coming into it and working with other people's children and seeing, starting to see how the system was created, which was not for us. Um, just let me make that kind of a caveat and with seeing how the system worked, I was a constant push back to the system. Whether it be my principals, whether it be parents, you know what I'm saying, or whoever, I was the constant, like, I tell people all the time, I didn't fit into the K 12 educational system. My mind works such that I think outside of the box. I like to be innovative, and I don't mind [00:05:00] confrontation. And that is not, you know, that never was a thing that was bad for me.

And I mean, you know, the

I mean, I'm just laughing cause you know, this is why we probably get along. I mean, but to me, that's also like. You were intentionally using your voice and often people are hesitant to use their voice when they feel like it's confrontational, even if it's just speaking truth, right? Like it feels confrontational.

So they don't want to do that. So I'm sorry, I interrupted your story. Keep going.

it's just, you know, I tell people all the time. I was, I was very surprised in K 12 education that I was never fired. I was laid off because of budget cuts and things like that. Last one in first one out when that happens to you so many times, but I was really surprised that I was never fired.

Because the things that I pushed back on and I'm a habitual [00:06:00] line stepper, I will walk the line very well and find the loophole very well to do what I needed to do for kids. So, I was, I was very surprised that I was never fired in K12 education. Like for real, because I was not in, and I am the same way today.

And that is one reason why, um, I have to be in the right place. Like I have to work for the right people that can actually receive that and not be in a fee fees. Like you can't be in your feelings talking to

Okay.

That's the thing, because this is business. It's not personal. Right. And when my business is kids, it's nothing personal against I have to worry about Children and families outside of myself, and I need you to do the same. So a person was [00:07:00] constantly emotionally driven with me. It's not going. It's not going to last, especially not if you're my supervisor, because then I know you, you probably not going to want to work with me, but you're not going to be able to supervise me.

So even issues like that. When I think about, you know, people that I have supervised in schools and all that type of stuff, I had to be equitable with teachers as well. That means meeting them where they were instructionally, personally, you know, um, like physically, mentally, all of that. I had to be able to provide things for them to support them that they weren't able or couldn't or didn't even recognize that they needed to provide for themselves.

So when you are talking about a school leader, let's just school leaders, the constant stepping outside of yourself and humbling yourself and being able to look at the [00:08:00] situation in its totality. Like kids, parents, community, you, by yourself, you know what I'm saying, like trying to look at the situation and make it equitable for everybody.

I didn't say palatable, but some people ain't gonna like it.

But facts,

Right. So making it equitable for everybody in every situation that comes up down to a school field trip, you know what I'm saying? Like they assemblies, parent gatherings, all that type of stuff. It is exhausting. exhausting work.

it is, and yeah, my wheels turning here because I'm thinking of two things, right? Like. So you said, I grew up in the system and it was just part of You know, life and who I was. And I think that is so true [00:09:00] for so many people, right? Because until you really take off the rose colored glasses and see the truth, right?

Like almost like the emperor's new clothes, right? He don't, he don't got any clothes on. Right. So. Until you can kind of see that truth, what you're talking about is being able to really look and think systematically around how do I change and adjust systems, because that is really the heart of what equity work is.

You have to be able to see that. the larger system, how that affects the system you're in, wherever school district that is. And then how do you build and make change? And that is a process that is a lot of work that requires Thought it requires going back to what you're talking about people who can see it And think about it and surrounding yourself with [00:10:00] people to provide you insight Into those changes that need to happen you Like as a single solitary person may or may not be able in a place To do that and your life experience is one, right?

So your perspective is one and depending on What your circle looks like, it could be very insulary too. So you haven't had the experience to notice and name the experience of, of others. So when we think about changing a system, it is, it is a lot of work and you have to be invested in it, right? Like it goes beyond like, Oh, we celebrated Black History Month.

Oh, great. Great. And how are you doing those same things? All the time,

Yep. It's difficult. It's difficult. Yeah, that's a lot of weight on your shoulders. Yeah,

right? Like it's not necessarily easy work while there [00:11:00] are some simple ways to take equitable actions on a daily basis. Changing the larger system is heavy work.

every word. And you need, like you said, and I love that you use the word invested because I tell people the difference between investment and buy in all the time. Buy in, I equate to a poker game. You can buy into it, you lose your money, you get up and you go, right? You know, investment is a long term thing.

Uh, and that means that when you invest in someone, something, some place, some school, what have you, that you are thinking, I'm going to be here for the long, long term and in education today, that is not the case, even down, even especially at the superintendent level on down,

Oh, whoa.

like, people are not staying [00:12:00] in, in K 12 education, much less, like, you know, Uh, universities and colleges.

Well, they're not staying. They're also being pushed out

there you go.

Very much what you were talking about earlier, because if they're trying to change the system for those that the system was not initially in place for, right, they're being pushed out. And so then we're back to where we were and where we've been.

And I know that it is a very frustrating climate for those. that do this work. I know there's a lot of concern about being able to continue this work, especially as we approach some of the changes that are in 2025. Um, I think what's important is the work doesn't stop. I don't care who is in the Oval Office.

This work doesn't stop. This is not new for this type of work, like the adversity this work has faced its entire [00:13:00] existence. It has never left right like people thought it did because they're like, Oh, we elected Barack Obama. So we woke we all good. Now there's no more racism. No, all that did is highlight how actually, um, it, it, it still existed, but I'm like, kind of all over the place right now because I'm very excited about this.

I was thinking about investment, right? And to me, like, if you were doing this work, you were invested and you, Okay. It is not comfortable for everyone. And I'm thinking, have you seen in the news lately about Costco? Okay. So Costco has doubled down on their DEI initiatives because people were telling them basically like, you need to let that go.

And they're like, no, we're good. We want to keep and have a equitable environment for our employees. Now there's like, so they've doubled down. So to me, like. That's using your voice. Costco is influential, right? Like they're a big organization. They're saying this is important work [00:14:00] and they're invested in it.

And I like, I don't currently have a Costco membership, but I'm about to go get one cause

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

go Costco. But to me, that's investment, right? You're not afraid to use your voice when it's necessary and it is scary. And there can be consequences for that. Right.

Absolutely.

back to, do you want to be in a place that doesn't value and support what is important to you and the people in the world?

Yeah. And that's the thing though, because I mean, if you look at, if you were to look at social media, whether you, IG, you know, wherever. You would think that I, I literally get the feeling that a lot of people are against DEI more so than what it actually is. And of course the news goes more towards the negative [00:15:00] stuff than the positive stuff.

So it's a mental game for you as a person who does speak out as a person who is standing 10 toes down and You know, equity and the things that should be going on and need to go on. It's a mental game because you have so much negativity coming towards you with, no, you know, they're breaking down this, they're doing this, they're doing that.

But it's a lot of people out there who believe in this.

Mm hmm.

And I have to believe that it's more people than not.

Yeah. Mm

It seems as if it's been a true awakening these last four years for a lot of people in the fact that we all we got, like, For real. The people in this country and the citizens like we all we got because we see obviously there's some jacked [00:16:00] up stuff going on at the government level no matter who's in office.

There's things that we didn't know about history that hasn't been told, you know, all types of stuff. People say we live in a simulation and all this type of thing. And I'm

the matrix.

Right, and I'm not going to dispute any of it because honestly, the last four years have shown anything is possible in the circus.

Okay, anything is possible. So I'm not going to dispute any of it if that's the way that they feel. But what are you really invested in? And are you willing to speak on it is the thing. I have spoken on certain topics with supervisors, With people that I've supervised, all types of stuff that literally could have, and it might one day get me fired because the person that I'm speaking to may have more authority than me and and don't like their toes being stepped [00:17:00] on or anybody telling them anything.

And my thing is You, you gotta stand for something and when you're able to, you should be able to speak on these things because it's not only helping you, it's helping other people. And that's the caveat right there is that a lot of people are not thinking outside of themselves. They're thinking about me.

They're not thinking about the future, even if you got kids in school or whatever, you're not thinking about your kids. Like so these are the things that they're going through and you don't want it to be better for them or for the next generation. Um, that is what blows my mind sometimes is that people are such so short sighted. And, and what the actual outcomes could be, or just getting the ball rolling for. It's a whole lot of people who died, but they started movements. Thanks. You know what I'm saying? [00:18:00] And those movements were so powerful that they continued even after they were no longer here. That's the type of influence I want to be.

As a leader, that's how I wanted to be. As a school leader, I used to tell people all the time, this school should be running like a well oil machine when I'm not here. There's no reason that it shouldn't with the systems and the processes that we set up. They work. If you work them, that means everybody got to work.

Everybody got to work 1 person came flat. Everybody's got to work. So I think that is the biggest thing about the equity equity piece is that when you are a person who is about that life. And you are bringing and leading other people. into that life, they have to understand what they are signing up for and what you need them to be invested in.

And you need [00:19:00] to be clear about that, which means you got to be clear about yourself what you're trying to get to, what you would like the outcomes to be in the future. You got to be able to communicate that. And then also when they step into that, they got to realize that If this is work, man, like all of us have to work and all of us have to be for this vision or this mission, and it's not easy.

It's not easy. It's exhausting at times. But the things that I have seen happen in schools, when leaders or when myself, when we start this movement, the movement can continue and you can make. You can make some great things happen in schools, you might not be able to change the system that you're in. But at least that one school, you can affect.

And that's what I had to think about every day is my footprint. [00:20:00] What, what, what did I want to leave in the footprint that I have because our footprints are only so big, most of the time. Um, but you can't expand them depending on how many people you touch and I just try to touch as many people as I possibly can with the things that I want to do as far as equity and, you know, diversity and inclusion in certain things that that go on, especially in my professional life in my personal life.

Um, it's difficult to have conversations with certain people for me

Mm

about this topic because I will get So passionate about it, and then people think, of course, that you're being confrontational. Um, and so, it's difficult for me to talk to certain people, and I have to cut it off in certain times, because I [00:21:00] know I might say something that you're really not going to like.

Okay. But I'm going to push back on that a little bit, Jerry, because if

Love it! Love

you don't say it right, who's going to,

I know, and then when I get tired of always being the one, like, I am always the one that says, well, don't nobody ever want

Look, okay. I feel that in my soul because that is me, right? Like, I feel like, historically speaking, I'm the one who's willing to say the thing that the people are thinking. Mm hmm. Or ask the question and I try It is like a blessing and a burden, right? It's a blessing that you can see it and are able to put things into words to to do all of those things and to share those perspectives and it's also a little bit of a [00:22:00] burden because it can be an emotional load and it's taxing because you're like Why am I the only one who's willing to step up and say something?

And i've been trying to reframe that for myself over the last Like a couple years is when I think about, you know, how do I use my voice? I use my voice to other people feel comfortable using their voice. And I'm trying to focus on that and then even be more strategic about when. You know, when and how I share it, but it is, it's a lot.

Cause you're like, why am I the one? But you know what? We're probably just, we were called to do that. Right. I'm pretty sure the great leaders of these movements that we talked about were like, why am I the only one out here saying this? I'm sure they had similar thoughts. Do you not, do you think? I think so.

I guess.[00:23:00]

Like, could y'all just

I guess. I

For a minute, like

know, Tami. I get to a point where I'm like, why am I the only one talking when I know there's other people on this line that, that want to say the same thing? Like, and then you end up being looked at as the disruptor, as the troublemaker, you know? Yeah.

the one who's not on

like,

Well, especially, okay, let's keep it real now. Especially if you are one of the only black and or Brown people in an on the line, right, because other people can say the same thing in the same way. And they're like, Oh, that's such a really great idea. And then they're like, Ooh, why are you being so aggressive? Are you angry?

of my life. Jesus. That is the story of my life. And that's the thing that I get [00:24:00] tired of is that, you know, I'm the one to highlight all the BS. I'm the one to highlight. No, that does not sound right. Can you.

I'm sorry.

Rephrase

be like, okay. My friends call me the queen of clarifying. I'll be like, I just have a clarifying question. Are you saying blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That, yeah, that's what I, mm.

I'm gonna help me to understand. To understand it a little bit better.

Help me un, help me help you. I may have missed it.

I think I'm missing something. Yes, but then, but then I become the, you know, sarcastic.[00:25:00]

Hehehe. Ohhhh. I like the

Struggle, I mean the struggle is real. It is real.

struggle, it's real. But it's worth the struggle, y'all. Like, it's, it's worth the struggle. And, look. Some of you listening are probably like, Oh my god, this is me. So, just know. Just know, you're not, you're not alone. It's so validating, isn't it? Yeah.

not alone. No, it is. It's very validating. I mean, and it's good when you meet people kind of like you like that. Because, um, it makes you feel like you just, you're not the pariah, like you are, and actually it makes me feel like a unicorn sometimes, because I'm like, you know, it's very few people that I meet like that.

I had to start to meet those types of people. It's like your tribe, your vibe is your tribe, right? Most of the [00:26:00] time. And you, you start to attract that energy, which lets you know that, Oh, I'm not alone in this.

Yeah.

I'm glad that I'm not because I work with a good group of people that think the same way, that feel the same things, but very few speak out

hmm.

on those things.

And, and when I say speak out, I mean like publicly speak out, people can put it on surveys and all this stuff all the time. But are you speaking these things? In your smaller groups, are you speaking to the people that actually may be able to help you make a change or anything like, are you speaking truth to power, basically?

You know, on the front line versus the back channel.

exactly. And a [00:27:00] lot of people don't feel comfortable with that. But I am that person where no matter what room I'm in zoom in person, what I me, no matter what, like, there is no representative. me anymore because of the things that I have seen, the things that I have, you know, experienced, especially in school systems and things like that.

There was no room for me to sit back and just let things happen. I just, it didn't sit right in my gut. It didn't sit right in my heart or my mind to see things just happen. Now, when I first started out teaching, yeah, I was trying to get my equilibrium right. Like, what is really going on here? You know, but as I moved and matriculated, like through the system and higher positions and things like that, you [00:28:00] could see the connections, right?

Um, and you could start to think about things that Actually needed to be changed or modified or what have you. Some days I feel like, honestly, the K 12 system in this country needs to be broken down to be built back up. Um,

Yes. I was, I was really hoping COVID was going to be that catalyst to be honest.

yeah. And I mean, understanding that it's not easy to create systems. It's not easy to create processes, but when you have the right people to be able to do it and implement it, not just think about it, not just, oh, I got the idea. Yeah, no implementation is priceless. Because the idea is not going to work if you don't, if you don't have people around you to implement it effectively and efficiently.

So the, the, the thing about the systems that people are working in today is [00:29:00] I feel for all my educators, um, working in the system today. I support, I, I, you know, grow. I do all of that. Teach. All of that to try to help people ask me all the time, do I want to go back to K 12 as long as I can make the decisions, I would love to go back to K 12.

You want to know why? Because I feel like I can rock that joker out. Like I did it going out. I know I can do it coming back in. I'm smarter. I'm wiser. Like I see things from different viewpoints and all of that, but I have to be in the right system.

Yeah.

Like I have to have the right framework. The system is what it is.

I have to have the right framework and the right person, and I have to be making the decisions to go back to that type of environment. But until then, I will [00:30:00] support any educator, any day, and what it is and the changes or the modifications that they would like to make in their system and or in their building.

Because that's what I like to do. I think that's one of my purposes for being here is to grow people and to support people. And so I do it and I do it with all my heart and I do with all everything in me. I have it tattooed on me. I have Meraki tattooed on me because it means to put all of yourself into your life's work.

I

do that. And I do it without, you know, any expectation in return, but to see the outcome of what these leaders or these teachers have in their classrooms and in their schools is all I need. all I need. And knowing that I had a part in [00:31:00] supporting that.

love that. I love that. And I want to use this idea of growing and supporting people to segue a little bit before, uh, we run out of time because we just, we just could talk about all the things, but talk to me about your common sense, co parenting podcast.

It's been a long time coming Tami.

I, I got that feeling, you know, but the people need the support, Jerry.

So. Cause. You know, the struggle can be real there too.

It is that there is no could be it is and I understand the struggle all too. Well, this, this comments is co parenting idea came to me after I wrote my book. Um, because my daughter was moving into college and I was wondering, like, what is this life going to look like with her at college [00:32:00] in 1 city, her dad in another city and I'm in another city, like, in.

in the country. We had never, we had always been in the same city. I stayed in St. Louis for like a decade because my daughter didn't want to leave with me when I had the opportunity to move for a job. So, um, this has been a long time coming with me and it's been on my heart and people have been telling me for a long time that I need to talk about this topic.

Because a lot of people are very uncomfortable talking about this topic and I see parenting, you know, like podcast people talking here and there about their co parenting stuff. Um, I, however, have been doing this since my daughter was 8 months old. I was actually married, um, been divorced, got remarried, which caused.

a step parent situation, then got divorced again, which caused me to make sure my daughter went to therapy. You know, I went to therapy, [00:33:00] like all of these different steps that I've gone through actually helped me, helped my co parenting relationship, helped my daughter. Uh, be able to navigate two different households with two totally different parenting styles.

Right,

Um, a stepmother on that end, a stepsister on that end, like, my daughter has gone through the gamut. Um, and so, and so have I, because she Was going through that. So just I wanted to start this because it's like the common sense part of it and I said this in my first episode is that the child's needs should always come first.

Hmm.

Um, yes, we need to have self care. Yes, we need to take care of ourselves, but they can't take care of themselves. So in thinking about your self care, you need to think about how that affects your child. In [00:34:00] thinking about, you know, your relationship with the father, you need to think about first, how does that affect your child?

Changing your work schedule, how does that affect your child's schedule? You know, so top of mind should always be the child. That's the common sense piece of it that a lot of people don't seem to get. Well, once again, we're a me, me, me, all about me. Yes, you need to take care of you in order to take care of the child.

But do you need to have that Louis bag when your child needs clothes for school?

Right.

You know what I'm saying? Like, you need to think about the things that you need versus the things that you want. Yes. two different things. What does your child need first? Not, not the things that they want, but what do they need?

Yeah.

so that is what I'm talking about. And I have five characteristics of effective co [00:35:00] parenting that I'm going to be talking about. And just the framework for if parents feel like they need to, Some coaching or anything like that for certain situations. I've talked to parents about parenting plans, you know, cause they don't know how to sit down and talk to the other parent about it, just different situations that we actually need an unbiased.

Person on the other side because we can't talk to family all the time.

Or even friends. Right, because they're your people, right. Like,

exactly. It's very difficult because they're biased. They want you to be happy. You know what I'm saying? So they're going to have a certain. Mindset or outlook or perspective on whatever you tell them, they're going to be all for you, but you need someone that's going to tell you now.

That might not quite be right. How about we try, you know, X, Y, and Z, or someone that's going to question you about why are you doing these things or, [00:36:00] you know, give me the backstory or tell me how that makes you feel or something like that. So it's just, um, I think it's needed, especially now when marriages, the number of marriages is declining, but people haven't stopped having kids.

right.

So, you know, like you're not married, but you haven't stopped having kids. We have people who live with grandparents. They're co parenting,

Yeah.

you know, they're parenting your child. We have people that live with relatives or friends. They're parenting your child. Like, so in any situation that you're in, typically you're going to have a co parent unless it's just you and you have no family, um, but you're going to have, even if they stay at your friend's house. That person is parenting your child for a certain amount of time, just like teachers in the classroom. I talk about it from the school perspective to like what, what I saw in schools with the [00:37:00] co parenting situations and how I get caught up as being a parent, , as a teacher, like, because I'm with your child seven, eight hours a day, longer than you are most of the time during the week.

So, you know, you have to think about those things and how do you navigate that, especially as a single parent or single mom or single dad, um, trying to have a relationship with this other person for the rest of your child's life.

Right?

Like that's a long time.

Yes.

married to that person so yeah my ex husband and I reflected the other day about. Like I turned 50 and he was like, wow, he said it like we got married when I was 25.

Mm-hmm

And so he was like, man, it's been a long time. It has. And, and my daughter is about to turn 23. So, you know, since eight months old, [00:38:00] we've been doing this journey and it's been, it's been, uh, it's been a ride.

Oh, you know what? It, it is a ride like so. My ex's mom, she and I did a lot of, um, co parenting together. Cause she was the one that really stepped up. I mean, she lives in Texas now with me, so we love her, but we were just talking about that, like when I started seeing my ex husband, I was the same age as my son is now.

Oh,

So, so yeah, she's known me for a very long time. Like.

for half of your life.

Over half, over half. She's done me.

Oh,

Yeah. 27 years. Mm hmm. Almost 28. Mm hmm.

That is crazy.

It's so wild. It's so wild. So it is. So I appreciate that because I think it's necessary. And I, and I like. I really do appreciate the thinking outside the box, too, [00:39:00] because as you lean on other people, um, you know, because before, right, historically, people were in larger groups and there was this, it takes a village, right, to raise a child, which I don't think has changed.

I think maybe what it looks like has changed a bit, like, probably, you know, people are moving away from their nuclear family, so it's more like friends and things like that. And I know that was the case for me, because I didn't live in the same state as them. Like my parents, right? So, um, and the part about school is true too, right?

Like they even have in locus parentis, right? Like in place of the parent, like that is a whole thing. And so that's very exciting. So I heard you also mentioned you have a book. What's the name of your book? Where can we get your book?

Oh, my book was written a while ago. I never even talk about it, do I? Um, it is Imagine This. I'm sorry, Imagine That. Uh, Chronicles of an Urban School Principal. So, that book was on my heart for a long time. Um, during COVID, [00:40:00] had extra time, got laid off. And the Lord was like, sit down and write, and I wrote it in 10 days and got it out.

Okay. All

I mean, it's just a compilation of stories from being an urban school principal. And some of them are very funny. Um, and so I've been

are funny. Kids are funny. Kids are funny. Kids are the best. Really. They are.

Yeah, it's something people think, oh, no, that didn't happen in school. Yes, it did. Yeah, it did.

I used to use examples like that all the time when I was a professor teaching, uh, teacher ed students, I'd be like, so here's this. And they're like, that didn't happen. I'm like, Oh,

Yes,

It did. I'm not making this up. How would I make that up? I don't even like, I know.

I'm thinking about a second installment. That's why I said imagine this, but I'm thinking about a second installment of input. Imagine this, but it would be Chronicles of a Co parent. [00:41:00] Basically, so I'm thinking about different things right now as far co-parenting space and the reason why I mean, this is this is such a passion of mine is because I just talked to so many people that it's difficult like the road is not easy, especially starting out.

But with the way that my situation turned out and with, um, it, it got easier. Like we had to go through the fire first, but it gets harder before it gets easier. But what I try to tell people is that if you put these things in place with these five characteristics that I have, then You, it will make the road easier for you, not necessarily for your co parent, because what you're focused on is the child, right?

You still have to have this relationship with this other person that is amicable enough. That it is not affecting [00:42:00] your, the quality of your child's life. So what I just try to talk about those things because I went through it like, and, and I know that it's not an easy road. And had I had someone to actually talk to or even bounce ideas off of, or something to read, especially for parents of color, I'm sorry, this is, this is just, It's a big deal to me, especially in my schools where I had fatherhood groups.

I didn't have motherhood groups. I have fatherhood groups that would meet every month in my school because they felt like it was a safe place to have certain conversations

Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm.

legal stuff, about, you know, custody, the things like that. And to create those kinds of spaces for either co parent was a thing that I like to do in the schools that I was in.

So, um, I just think it will work for educators to think about it from a different perspective when you're dealing with [00:43:00] students who are between 2 households or 3. And then also the parents who are sending their kids to school every day. with certain things that have gone on that the school is not aware of.

You wonder why certain behaviors come out, all that type of stuff. So I try to cover both. Um, if I possibly can't just, just because the kids need it. You know,

Absolutely.

but thank you for asking me about that book because I keep forgetting about it

Of course. Of course. And listeners, I'll put that in the show notes. And Jerry, we need to know, which podcast provider can they find your podcast on?

right now. I'm just on YouTube. I'm trying to, um, get Apple podcast and a couple of other places for the audio one. So we'll see how it goes.

That would be great. That would be great. That will be great. I will link all of that for y'all in the show notes. So you can go and check out her podcast and [00:44:00] her book and Dr. Jerry, I usually wrap up with like a snippet of advice. So what's the one thing you would want to share with. the listeners about something that they should take away and the one thing they could do.

Um, I think you should take away the fact that the work is not easy. And, but it's worth it. It takes some time to get to where you want to get to whether you're in a school or in an organization with this equity work. It is frustrating. Um, it's exhausting, but also it's a beautiful disaster.

Yes.

Once you get things rolling. Okay, so what I would say is stand 10 toes in your beliefs stand 10 toes in what it is you're trying to do. And eventually, you will have a tribe that will assist you and [00:45:00]support that. And you will get to where it is you want to be. We all have bumps along the way, but to see, to be able to see the fruits of your labor, uh, it comes, it just, it takes a minute.

So don't stop what you're doing. Uh, rejuvenate, re up, do whatever you need to do to get your, get your power back up, um, but keep, keep fighting the good fight,

I love it. I love it. And yes, the community is powerful. We all need community. And there's power in our story. As humans, we have always leaned into the power of our story and sharing our stories with each other. So thank you so much for sharing some of your story with me today, Jerry. It was so fun to have you on.

always a joy, always a joy.

Thank you listeners for tuning in to the equity hour podcast. As I mentioned, you can [00:46:00] check out the show notes for information to connect with Jerry's podcast and her book, and please like rate and share the podcast and check me out on IG for more information. Have a great day.