Equity, Access, and Innovation: Transforming Education

How can we bridge the digital divide, improve equity in education, and make edtech work for all students? In this episode, Dr. Tami  sits down with Dewayne J. McClary, an education leader with deep expertise in K-12 schools, digital equity, and education leadership. They uncover the biggest challenges—and solutions—facing today’s schools.

Key Topics: 

✔️ Equity is a Journey, Not a Destination – Why social justice and educational equity require long-term commitment.
✔️ Bridging the Digital Divide – What’s the difference between just “having internet” and true broadband access for students?
✔️ Rethinking EdTech Use in Schools – "Just because you put a worksheet on a device doesn’t mean you’re using technology effectively."
✔️ The Expanding Role of Schools – Are we asking too much of educators beyond teaching?
✔️ Strategic Change for Education Leaders – How districts can cut through the noise and focus on what truly impacts student success.

Discovery Call

Transcript

Dr: Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of the equity hour with me, your host, Dr. Tami Dean and my guest today, Dwayne McCleary is going to bring some gems to us today to talk about what he's been doing and what he's up to. You guys get a little preview, but Dwayne is a native of King's Tree, South Carolina. He's a graduate of Williamsburg County School District. After he graduated high school, he got his bachelor's degree from Francis Merian University. He got his executive master's from Georgetown University. Very fancy in business. Very fancy, very fancy. But Dwayne comes with over 15 years of broad and deep experience as a teacher, school administrator, district leader.

Dr: Y'all he's done all the things, trust me, we've worked together before. He has worked in rural South Carolina, the suburbs of Virginia and urban DC. He is also can't leave this out. A very proud member of the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity. [00:01:00] Welcome Dwayne.

Dewayne McClary: Hey, Tami, how are you?

Dr: I'm, you know, good. I'm hanging in there.

Dewayne McClary: It's good. It's good to virtually see you again.

Dr: I know it's been a minute. It's been a minute. I was so glad you wanted to come on the podcast because I know you bring a wealth of knowledge and expertise to share with not just educators, but also like the corporate world, right? I think sometimes people think they're super separate with what we do.

Dr: And there's a lot of overlap there.

Dewayne McClary: There's a lot of, uh, you know, when I was in the district, we call it the dark side, but once I got on the dark side, I was like, Oh, it's not as dark as it is. There's a lot of connection here with K 12. Um, and a lot of people don't understand or see that. So very excited to talk a little bit about that 

Dr: Yes. Yes. I love 

Dewayne McClary: thank you. Thank you for boosting me up and telling people I'm a good person. So 

Dr: Of course you 

Dewayne McClary: live up, I have to live up to that.

Dr: you, you, you [00:02:00] absolutely can, you know,

Dr: And 

Dewayne McClary: I promise to be nice. I promise to be nice.

Dr: Okay. Well, as long as you promise, then

Dewayne McClary: not going to go too, too deep into what's going on now in 

Dr: oh, yeah, we would be here all night.

Dewayne McClary: Political side, my political science side. Come on, just say it.

Dr: Oh, yes, yes, yes. Who was it? I was just talking to someone and they're like, well, the daily show is set, set for life. They're like, that's where I'm going to get my news from now on. Cause I

Dewayne McClary: Oh yeah.

Dr: little bit easier, but no, no. Yes. And I got a reputation though. People like, Oh, if you cool, Tami, then you cool.

Dr: So I'm just kidding, but okay. So, but for real though, one of the things that I talk about a lot on here is. You know, social justice, equity work, all of this is a marathon, not a sprint, right? And there's a lot of misconception that, you know, I can do [00:03:00] this a one and done, or, you know, you're a quote unquote expert, so you know, all the things which, you know, I think it's always a learning path and learning journey.

Dr: And so I always like all my guests to share kind of a little brief snippet of kind of what brought you into this space and this work and being involved. Okay.

Dewayne McClary: , I started really focusing on equity, uh, really doing my, it's interesting we talk about this now. So I, I've always been involved in social justice. My family kind of forced me there. I had a aunt, a great, great, great aunt. Who was like the NAACP for our area. And she was that person fast forward to my high school years.

Dewayne McClary: I became very involved in the local chapter of the youth and college division of NAACP college years, uh, became the, , education committee chair for the state [00:04:00] of South Carolina youth and college division of NAACP. And later became the state. President for the Youth and College Division. So, social justice has always been through and through my blood.

Dewayne McClary: Growing up, um, you know, I had many civil rights leaders in my community that I can name, that I can reach out to or live down the street from me, join a march anytime, any day across the state of South Carolina. And so that has been something that I've taken with me even when I went into education.

Dewayne McClary: Starting out in my early years in my hometown, , where I saw, you know, students who look like me, who came from communities, um, that were, you know, very impoverished are, and it was, it was sad to see, but they didn't have the access that other. You know, students across the state had, we were in what they call the corridor of shame.

Dewayne McClary: Um, and, if you don't know what that is, people looked that up in the state of South Carolina. So it's pretty much the [00:05:00] most impoverished area across the state. , and maybe on the East Coast. Um, and so we were struggling. With, you know, kids that had never left the city limits. , we started a boys and girls club, and we took them to Atlanta, Georgia.

Dewayne McClary: We took them to see a baseball game, we took them to the Coca Cola Museum, we took them to the African American Museum. The funny thing is to see these young men and women at the boys and girls, club that we created. Um, hanging on the side of the windows of the bus sale because they were leaving the Williamsburg County.

Dewayne McClary: They had never left the county.

Dr: Wow.

Dewayne McClary: Not even then to even talk about the state. Like, it was just sad to see, but it was also exciting because we were given that experience. So for me, it's always been about giving opportunity and access to individuals that were in my arm's and that kind of led me to wanting to broaden, you know, my reach.

Dewayne McClary: [00:06:00] I came to D. C., worked in Arlington Public Schools, um, for about three years. Uh, we started the first one to one in the district, had a, you know, some pushback, but it was, you know, it was necessary. It was a very, you know, high affluent district, but there were also some inequities across the district.

Dewayne McClary: Some schools had certain devices versus others, and we, we kind of normalized that. Later came to D. C. Public Schools, where my eyes were open even wider. To the very vast inequities there was, especially when it came down to, digital equity. And when I talk about digital equity, it's like a five prong stool.

Dewayne McClary: It's like affordable and reliable internet access. And we're just not talking about this. I'm talking about real broadband, internet access in your home, access to an appropriate device. And when I say appropriate, because it depends on the needs, it could be a laptop, it could be a tablet, um, whatever that need is for that individual.

Dewayne McClary: And [00:07:00] then the third stool is digitized curriculum. A lot of people, you know, we put these devices in the hands of kids, but what are they going to do on it? Have you digitized the curriculum? Have you aligned your curriculum to even meet the needs and most districts at that time? I think we're past that.

Dewayne McClary: They were buying the device and then fixing the curriculum to align with device when it should be the opposite way. You should be have your curriculum content folks at the table. Okay. Cool. Finding the device that aligns with your needs. Like, do you have, do you have probes? Do they need to plug into USB or USB C?

Dewayne McClary: Do you have those peripherals? Like, it's so many moving parts that you gotta have someone that's really thinking about it from that standpoint.

Dr: Yeah. Well, and even the why and when you're going to use the technology, because I

Dr: know, you know, working on my doctorate, part of what I did, studied was ed tech and that was one of the things, right? Like, just because you're, you don't just take a worksheet and then put it on a device and now we're like using technology, right?

Dr: [00:08:00] Like, there's a reason. And then a purpose

Dewayne McClary: What's the outcome you want? Exactly.

Dr: and then what is the best tool for that outcome? It may or may not be

Dr: like the device, 

Dewayne McClary: Correct.

Dr: which I think is where we are right now, in my opinion. I think we're just like, oh, we need to use a device. And so people are just using the device. Thinking they're doing something well,

Dewayne McClary: Yeah.

Dr: that question is missing.

Dewayne McClary: But we have a different movement, I think, now. We have a movement of banning cell phones. Get rid of them. Let me tell you, cell phones ain't going nowhere.

Dr: Oh.

Dewayne McClary: Like, we, I remember when I, when I was an instructional technology coordinator, we were trying to get teachers to understand that devices are here and devices are here to stay.

Dewayne McClary: And if anything, it's going to get worse. How do we incorporate those tools? How do we cooperate those devices into the classroom? Because at one time [00:09:00] before ESSA dollars came and COVID hit, we didn't have enough devices to get students. There was no money, there was no funding for it. So, you know, we had to utilize the student device.

Dewayne McClary: It could be the, you know, some of them had iPads, some of them had cell phones. We're using those for the Kahoots, then, of the world. Um, but now it's like, we're like, we don't want them, put them away. I think that's a slippery slope, and I know, that's a contentious conversation, but I want people to understand where did this movement come from.

Dewayne McClary: Research it. Understand where did this cell phone movement come from? Because sometimes we hitch our, our, our, our bandwagon to something that we don't know where it came from. Just, just look and see where that, that movement started.

Dr: Okay, so I think that's an interesting thing to look at, because you're right.

Dr: It's really easy to hitch our bandwagon to something, or like, you know, the sheep, because the information is quick and easy, and are we doing our due diligence in vetting it.

Dewayne McClary: Everybody else [00:10:00] is doing it. So I think I better do it too. It's a good slogan, you know, student engagement, but you're giving schools, it's like you making schools, um, have a, another thing like they're, they're. It's like the, you know, jack of all trades, but master of none. We have schools doing, you know, they gotta be good at, giving out devices.

Dewayne McClary: They gotta be, be our internet provider. They gotta be our social, social justice people. They have to also make sure our kids, have therapy. They gotta do IEP. They gotta do that. It's 

Dr: emotional wellness. 

Dewayne McClary: when are they gonna do instruction? We got them doing all of this stuff, and now you making them now enforced?

Dewayne McClary: putting phones away and policing them when parents don't even police them themselves. Parents can't even police the devices at home.

Dr: Well, let's, let's get real for a second. Cause I'm a big proponent of, we sometimes, I'm gonna say unintentionally, as educators ask students to do things that we [00:11:00] don't even do. So

Dr: I would like ask the teachers, how often are you also checking your device? Like if you're walking around your classroom with your phone in your back pocket, Okay. Or your front pocket. I'm just saying, like,

Dewayne McClary: Mm hmm. I

Dr: Literaly doing the same thing. And it's what we all do. And I, and I do know that that's an issue. And I've been, you know, I've seen a few articles that talk about notifications and the number of notifications and how distracting it is. And I will a thousand percent agree with that.

Dewayne McClary: agree with it. Like, my phone just went off just now. Like, See, that's why I like turn it upside down. I have like, I talk about notifications being off, like, I'm like strategize, you know, but they aren't going anywhere. So I think that's a really good point. I'm. I'm gonna myself have to look into where that came from because I'm not even sure. Myself. But I

Dewayne McClary: that's, that's everyone's homework. Just kind of look, where did this movement start and who started it?

Dr: Yes. I love it. [00:12:00] I love this. I love homework because I'm so nerdy. Like for real. I am. I'm so nerdy. Hey, you know what? It's the nerds of the world that kind of make it go around and come up with these really cool things. So,

Dewayne McClary: yeah, I was, I was, I think I was considered a nerd when I was, you know, younger. I was, I was that kid. My mom was a teacher, so I had no other choice. I had no other choice. 

Dr: Like 

Dewayne McClary: a chess club, 

Dr: You know, I mean, I was in band. I mean, doesn't that, just by the very nature of being in a band, make you a little nerdy? Oh, yeah. I had friends on the debate team. I personally was not on the debate team,

Dewayne McClary: And it was not my choice. It was my mother told me, this is what you're going to do. And so I did it.

Dr: you just were like, yes, ma'am.

Dewayne McClary: Yes, ma'am. Scared of that lady. And still I'm 42 and I'm still scared of that lady.[00:13:00]

Dr: Hey, it's good to have a little healthy, you know, your mama, like, what did my daughter say to me? She said something to me to the effect, like, girl, I'm like, you, You're still my kid, like, forever and ever.

Dewayne McClary: I wouldn't say it was fear. I think it was more of a. Respect, fear. Like I respected my mother. I revered her like she could do no wrong and still can. You know, we, I was brought up in that era. I was brought up in the era. You probably me and you. Same, uh, we were brought up in era where, you know, neighbors, we knew all of our neighbors.

Dewayne McClary: I couldn't go down the street with us. Somebody calling, Hey, I saw, so I used to ride my bike a lot. And I had a lot of community members around and there were certain areas I couldn't go to and there'd be the old lady sitting on the porch and they'll see me riding my bike and they'll step on the porch.

Dewayne McClary: You know, you're not supposed to go down there.

Dr: Look, the era of the bikes, man.

Dr: was so great. We were just so free 

Dewayne McClary: doing [00:14:00] all types of things. They're just riding everywhere. That's supposed to be..

Dr: even know. And, and, you know, and then sometimes I think about our generation's gone the total other way and they're like, Life 360, I need to know where you are at all times.

Dewayne McClary: Yeah. I tracked my kids. We, we, we tracked them on their phone, but the problem with that is then they end up tracking you. So I was like. I'm at the store like, dang, can you pick me up so and so? And I'm like, how do you know I'm at the store? Remember us when we're tracking each other on 

Dr: Uh huh. Oh, that happened once. I was on a trip for my birthday. My kids are like, Oh, I see you're staying at this hotel. Oh, mmkay, we, yeah, mmhmm. Y'all don't need to know all that, I don't need to know all that, but okay. Yes, okay, so let it, we digress, we digress. But it's all relevant, see? And this also is an example. Because this is what people do when they talk, they're like, Oh, this made me think of this, and then they think of something else, and like, you see this when educators try to do group work, and they're like, Oh, the [00:15:00] kids talk about something else, yeah. Cause we all do that's like

Dewayne McClary: We all do.

Dr: human nature. So like give the kids a pass, still do the group work and let them collaborate with each other.

Dr: That's just my little, my little plug for that. So, so you've done a lot of things. Did you finish your journey talk? I don't even know, but you've done so many things,

Dr: um, working at education. I'm curious, how did you move from wanting to being a political science and history major and doing business to deciding you wanted to. Go into education and work in schools. I mean did your mom 

Dewayne McClary: Wow.

Dr: have something to do with that being a teacher or like, how did that happen?

Dewayne McClary: So I've always wanted to, , I wanted to work in politics. I wanted to work on the Capitol Hill. I wanted to be that person. Like, I wanted to move to D. C. That was my ultimate goal. Luckily, I live in the suburbs of D. C. Um, and so I went to undergrad. My goal was to be a lawyer, political science, [00:16:00] with a focus on government and history.

Dewayne McClary: the LSAT, graduated in June, wanted to go to law school in, you know, that January. And so during that time when I was trying to figure out what I was going to do, my mom, being the mom that she is, said, Hey, you're just not going to sit here my house 

Dr: I knew that 

Dewayne McClary: June to January until you figure out what you're going to do.

Dewayne McClary: Um And just do nothing. Go down to the school district. They need some long term sub teachers. I think you took history, you'd probably certify for, you know, alternative route. Go down there and figure something out. So she sent me downtown at that time. No, she wasn't superintendent yet. She was the head of HR.

Dewayne McClary: Dr. Linda Huell. I love her to death. And she was like, yeah, you know, definitely. So I talked to her. She sent me over to Kingston Junior High School, same middle school I went to. So I'm now going back to the school, meeting the principal. They had a single gender program. So [00:17:00] that means all core area classes were taught.

Dewayne McClary: They had boys and girls separated. But doing the regular, you know, generic classes like PE, art, and doing lunch, , they were co ed. So I taught all boys eighth grade social studies. And when it was time for, when December rolled around, I was thinking about going, get my master's or go to law school.

Dewayne McClary: I didn't want to go because I was enjoying the work of just supporting and teaching these young men. It was a challenge, but it was fun. , and, and so I, I didn't, didn't go and go to law school. Uh, fast forward, stay a couple of years in in, Winsboro County. I think over five years, then Arlington and D.

Dewayne McClary: C. public schools. And right before COVID hit, um, I was, I met when I met, I met Kim Smith, like a year before I was asked to be on a panel with the department of education on equity. , [00:18:00] and I met Kim Smith. She was then the director, executive director of the league of innovative schools at digital promise.

Dewayne McClary: And we started talking, develop a relationship. And, one day, you know, I was, LinkedIn was just coming out, LinkedIn, things pop up 

Dr: Yeah. 

Dewayne McClary: director of the league pop up. It's like, where is Kim going? So I text her like, where are you going? You're leaving. And she was like, no, I'm hiring a director.

Dewayne McClary: I'm still going to be here. Why are you interested? And I'm like. No, I'm not interested.

Dr: I was just being nosy, trying to see what 

Dewayne McClary: you were doing

Dewayne McClary: In fact, I didn't even know that. I thought you were going somewhere. And then she was like, no, really, you know, think about it. And so I, um, , went through the, came home, talked to my wife about it. I'm like, nah, I think I'm good. But then I talked to my, my then boss. And I remember talking to this person, they were very good at talking about what are your personal goals, you know, beyond just working here, what are your personal goals, DCPS was good at that very goal oriented.

Dewayne McClary: And I talked about needing a [00:19:00] network. And, uh, then I thought about it. I was like, , digital promise is a network of superintendents and leaders. Like that's where I want to end up. I want eventually want to be a superintendent. And so I called Kim back and was like, Hey, I want to put an application.

Dewayne McClary: She was like, do it. And you know, good luck. You go through the process, you make it, I see you on the other side. Fast forward. I became director of the league. My very last day at DCPS was the actual Friday that they were closing for COVID. Not intentional. That's just what happened. We were actually sitting a couple of blocks away from central office on First Street.

Dewayne McClary: At my party in a restaurant and the announcement was coming through that they were closing for COVID and I'll never forget it because that was like the time where everything was going crazy. But luckily, luckily enough, we had been doing a lot of work around one to one initiatives. This took [00:20:00] us five years to get there, honestly.

Dewayne McClary: And. It wasn't like it wasn't easy, but it was it was easier than some other districts, big districts because we had already put the groundwork and lay the groundwork for one to one app. And then so these students were able to get devices, get Internet access, digitized curriculum. Supports were put in place, uh, left a well oiled machine there, of instructional coaches, technical instructional coaches, and specialists who were able to, you know, day one, jump in and get the work done and, and, various, you know, love that work, but went on to run the League of Innovative Schools.

Dewayne McClary: Digital promise grew it to about 150 districts brought in at that time the biggest class and then other time brought in the most diverse class of leaders, particularly women and women of color and did that for three and a half years. I was traveling around the country showing people that [00:21:00] school was still happening because some people thought school was not happening.

Dewayne McClary: But there are a few districts that remained open, never closed. So I was, uh, On Twitter I had Where's Dwayne and I was traveling and taking videos and showing the world that, you know, school was happening

Dr: School was happening. That was such a challenging time. And,

Dr: oh, 

Dewayne McClary: I'll be the only person on the plane with a mask. That was, that was the most scariest thing.

Dr: yes, I had, you know, to travel some during that time too, but like supporting just when we think about equity and digital equity during that transition, like you saw so much of that and like what some districts were able to provide for supports, what Others just didn't have in place or even where they are.

Dr: The infrastructure just wasn't in place for students to have access to the Internet to do those types of things. So it really just highlighted those technological inequities [00:22:00] to me right around what's happening in school districts across the country, which. Is a challenge because technology is just a part of daily life at this point. Kind of going back to

Dr: what 

Dewayne McClary: like a light, like a light switch. It's like a light switch. You know, when I turn the light switch on, I expect the lights to turn on. But now, it's like a light switch. I expect the lights to turn on, I expect the water to work, and I definitely expect internet to be there. But even now in this, where we are, there's still a lot of people that are not connected to true broadband internet access.

Dr: yeah, yeah, yeah, that's definitely one of those inequities. So you've just done all the things and traveled around and very exciting that you are now launching and working on. You're own gig, like more officially, which is so exciting. We love that.

Dewayne McClary: Right.

Dr: is just so much [00:23:00] opportunity to me. There are so many great knowledgeable educators like yourself and your team. Um, that can provide support who, kind of walk the walk, who've been there, who understand what happens in schools, how to support the leaders, how to support the educators, because ultimately, I mean, what you didn't say this directly, but I feel like it sits with you too, like, ultimately, it's about what happens for those students inside These school spaces and what we're able to provide for those students.

Dr: So prodigious learning solutions That's just such a fancy name. I love it Is the name of your company? Tell us about it

Dewayne McClary: So prodigious learning solution, our goal is to overcome barriers, transform education, and empower futures. And, and [00:24:00] honestly, it started out just as a hobby. me and a few of my, uh, my friends, we are former, all former educators from principals, superintendents, directors of, uh, special education, you know, state level folks, special education teachers.

Dewayne McClary: It was about five or six of us and we were just sitting down and we were like, you know, we look at this table, like we could, we could run something here, we could do something.

Dr: We can do something!

Dewayne McClary: and,

Dr: skills! Look at us! 

Dewayne McClary: so they're like, Dwayne, you're in charge of it, figure it out. And so we've been I'm like, what? And so we've been doing this a couple of years now, but it's just a side gig.

Dewayne McClary: It's not our full time jobs. It's just something like, you know, you run into a friend and they're like, man, I heard you, you're good at this. Can you help me with this? Um, prime example, I had a charter school that was, , [00:25:00] Was, uh, in the process of evaluating a new LMS, but didn't really know what to look for because they didn't have the bandwidth of someone with instructional background at tech, , to ask the right questions.

Dewayne McClary: And so came in and helped them, you know, one ran their, pretty much developed their process, identified the top three. Then also did a performance task where this top three had to actually, and I work with the elementary, middle and high school where we actually develop, uh, those actual performance tasks where they, we gave them content that they had to put in their actual LMS because we wanted to see how it feels and look, you know, you want speed grading, you want this, you want that, we want to see it exactly because, you know, people could come to say you anything, 

Dr: Oh, they 

Dewayne McClary: actually want to, we want to 

Dr: tell you all the things you wanna, does

Dr: it actually do what you say it's going to

Dewayne McClary: Yeah, yeah. And so we did that process, selected it, uh, and then the next step[00:26:00] was actually doing the professional development with their teachers. So manage the professional development, actually develop an on demand training site on the LMS with them. Um, so now they're, they're, they're rocking it out.

Dewayne McClary: So things like that, you know, we, we've done other things from, student engagement, advocacy and activation, because a lot of times when we, as leaders, we sometimes forget the end, the end users, which is students. 

Dr: Mm hmm. Mm 

Dewayne McClary: and so helping them understand how do they activate students. We do a lot of strategic alignment and abandonment.

Dewayne McClary: A lot of times, we develop strategic plans, but we don't have the KPIs are aligned with them. But as districts, we also are hard to abandon things that we keep buying things

Dr: Yes. Like.

Dewayne McClary: keep buying and keep buying and keep paying and keep paying, but really don't look at the efficacy of it. So you have like 20, 000 tools, but you're only using 10 percent of any license on it.

Dewayne McClary: either particular tool. So how do we one [00:27:00] strategically abandon those, but ultimately look at what are the top ones that you need? Like what are, what are the expectations and outcomes for instruction and curriculum you want students to get? And we go through and embed those tools. Um, so help them dwindle down from hundreds.

Dewayne McClary: Uh, I had one district where they had, we did the count. It was 10, 600. Plus applications in the district, and they only had license with 500 of them. So that means student data was going out the window. 

Dr: That's 

Dewayne McClary: about cyber security, but helping them understand that pull all that back. And we got them down to like a good 100 good applications and tools.

Dewayne McClary: And a lot of that happened because of coven, um, you know, teachers believe in left and right. So they had to take their either instructional coaches or technology instructional coaches and put them back in the classroom. So I left a void for the district when it came to integration in [00:28:00] our. Developing new tools and we were able to fill that void, but it's only been a, it's only been a side gig for us.

Dewayne McClary: We were looking to make it into a bigger gig, but like I said, it's just a, it's a hobby right now. Like we just enjoy it. We're not out here trying to sell anything. We're just out here trying to help districts remove barriers 

Dr: Well, it's like a

Dewayne McClary: it.

Dr: thought partner, right?

Dr: Like how do I strategically put in place the things that I want to happen based on my strategic plan and my outcomes. So we have like a profile of this graduate, or we say, this is our priority. How do those things align? Because that's exactly true. Like I've seen in my experience. Like districts have duplication

Dr: of platforms and they don't necessarily need that. Like this platform does this, but this one does this, this and this. And then it just becomes confusing to educators. Like, how do we

Dewayne McClary: And then that's where the inequities come in

Dr: [00:29:00] yes,

Dewayne McClary: for 

Dr: know, because. This just, you know, this school uses this and this and this one does this, , and I'm all for, different schools can have different needs for their students and responding to those needs. But when we're looking at a baseline of What are we expecting or what are we saying we are providing for each of the students that are in the seats across all of our schools in our district? What systems do we have in place to make sure that that is happening?

Dewayne McClary: And you know, like I know taking anything from a teacher is bad, but you have to, you have to do the work because you have to create floors and not ceilings for teachers 

Dr: Mm 

Dewayne McClary: because you have to have that standard. You can't compare apples to apples when you have apples, oranges, pears, grapes, and grapefruits.

Dewayne McClary: And so how do you really know what's happening in your district? So we develop, help districts develop those [00:30:00] floors, but not, like I said, not create ceilings for them because we want teachers to go above and beyond, but we want to give you a basis of here's where, you know, this district, or here's where we stand when it comes from an equitable instructional learning practice for students.

Dr: Yeah. 

Dewayne McClary: here's the baseline that we're going to standard is a standard we're going to set across the district.

Dr: Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, if we, I always talk about and I always do this, right? Because like we layer, like layers on a cake, you know,

Dr: for teachers. And then the cake's gonna fall over because you can only have so many layers, right, because it's not supported. But when we, like, support teachers and integrate and show how to effectively, collaborate or use things or how it informs things and honestly make their life easier because we have thrown 8, 563 million things at the educators that we're trying to get them to do during the day.

Dr: [00:31:00] Right? And so how are we setting them up for success? How do we give them time and space to get to know the individual needs of their students? To get to know their students as

Dr: people and respect and honor that. How do we honor them as professionals to make the best decision around what their students need? Versus, on this Monday, on week three, you have to talk about this, despite if your whole class is like, Wait, wait, wait, wait, I'm confused. Can you please repeat that? No! Like, I don't even know when that happened, but it happens. And it just, it, it breaks my heart, to be honest, for

Dr: the teachers and the students.

Dr: Right? Everybody's frustrated.

Dewayne McClary: it's too many layers. It's kind of like paint. Um, I had a problem where my mom, she has lived in an older house and we had to renovate, you know, do some things. And we, we got to a point where we were painting the wall, but the paint was sticking. We're like, what is going on with this? So we got a [00:32:00] professional in there and they said, Oh, it was like 12 layers of paint here.

Dewayne McClary: It's not gonna stick in it. You 

Dr: need a new wall. 

Dewayne McClary: you gotta scrape it down to the, you know, to the bare bones and, and it's just like that. Like when you continuously put layers on top of layers on top of layers, eventually the paint's not gonna stick anymore. 

Dr: Yes. 

Dewayne McClary: it's gonna be like. What's going to happen here?

Dr: And then you bring in the professional to help you

Dewayne McClary: Start scraping.

Dr: so you can paint it how you need

Dewayne McClary: You bring in Prodigious and we just start scraping. You know, no point. You know, I had to plug that in.

Dr: that's what I'm saying. That was so great. Look, you'd think we'd planned that that way. We didn't. I promise

Dewayne McClary: Yeah, you know, just prodigiouslearning. org. That's it.

Dr: go check it out. Go check it out.

Dr: So in addition to that, okay, so we, you know, we love, I love a passion project, passion projects have a. Tendency to turn [00:33:00] into, you know, what we need to be doing because I always think they align and

Dr: maybe I'm just speaking to myself right now. They do align.

Dr: I feel like with our calling, um, and our mission. So that's very exciting for you all. But you also, are getting to also launch a podcast. Yay for fun podcasts.

Dewayne McClary: podcast.

Dr: Hey, you know what? I went to PodFest last year.

Dr: Um, cause I'm like, hey, yes. I was

Dewayne McClary: I heard about that.

Dr: I'm learning about, hosting my own podcast. Let me go.

Dr: And I learned so many things about podcasting that was really helpful. So I'm super excited. You're going to launch yours cause

Dr: you have a wonderful niche that you're going to fill. So. Let's talk about what you're about to launch.

Dewayne McClary: So this podcast has been in the making for almost a year and a half. Me and my wife, it's called Life, L I F E. [00:34:00] And it stands for Love, Inspiration, Faith, and Education. And so, funny thing is, it's gonna probably officially launch this weekend, we've been procrastinating, you know, life, life has been life ish over here.

Dr: Life and lifin like, look, it's been, It's really lifin

Dewayne McClary: really life ish. Um, but, we've just had so much going on with kids, I have a senior this year, you know, she, she's about to leave the nest, our first one. And,

Dr: Ooh, that's an exciting,

Dewayne McClary: you know,

Dr: time. I know, you know,

Dr: mine's about to be a senior and graduate. I feel like I just did that.

Dewayne McClary: Jesus, it goes by fast. 

Dr: you know, it's funny though. I asked him I said, oh this went So

Dr: much faster than high school Don't you think he goes like no, Not to me. I was like, okay. Well, that's fair.

Dr: You probably had to work harder for this But anyway, so

Dr: life and life and got a senior 

Dewayne McClary: life, so we're going to do deep dive conversations about life. So I want you to think about it. Like a lot of people when they [00:35:00] see Tami, Dr. Tami Dean. But do they really know Tami? And how did Tami get there? Um, and the goal is for us to start not breaking it down, but to get people to understand that, you know, life has a lot of trials and tribulations.

Dewayne McClary: And, just because you see me sitting here on the screen, you don't know what I've been through. , a lot of people don't know, I came from a rural area where statistically, I'm not supposed to be sitting here today. My mother and father were divorced before I was one. So that was another statistic against me.

Dewayne McClary: I'm from South Carolina. Boom. I'm a black male. Boom, boom. So, you know, statistically, I'm not supposed to be sitting here. I'm not supposed to have what I have. You know, so we want to be able to tell the stories of who is Dwayne McCleary and how did he get here? Um, it's funny that, I had someone approach me a while back and said, You know what, you said [00:36:00] something in your presentation that just changed my life.

Dewayne McClary: And I'm sitting there thinking like, what the hell did I say? I hope it was good. Um,

Dr: i'm gonna change it in a

Dr: good way. 

Dewayne McClary: you know, being transparent and sharing your story about, how you got here, what you do, and, you know, I dealt with this, I dealt with that helps somebody. So being transparent about who you are and what you do.

Dewayne McClary: Like a lot of people don't know they look at me today. No one would ever know that Dwayne McClary takes therapy. Yeah, it's, I'm a black man and I take therapy and, and proud of it.

Dr: Shout out therapy

Dr: I've you know, i've definitely talked about my therapy. I've been in therapy more than once i'm in therapy now I love therapy. My therapist is on a break and i'm like i emailed her i'm like You coming

Dewayne McClary: are you coming back?

Dr: What are you coming back? Uh, oh

Dewayne McClary: therapy has helped me. I will tell you, uh, to be transparent here, , it's probably the first time I spoke about it. Yeah, I'm gonna share this on the Tami Dean show. On, on Dragonfly. But, [00:37:00] my mom was diagnosed with dementia, uh, back in 2020. And my brother and I, and I can speak for myself, I think I can speak for my brother too, we were in denial.

Dewayne McClary: Like, oh, she's gonna be fine. Oh, no, no, no. Mother's day of last year, went to visit my mom. And when I tell you, we saw it my mother has been living with me ever since then.

Dr: my gosh. Yeah.

Dewayne McClary: And so dementia is a disease, a cruel disease because it changes the person.

Dr: Mm hmm. Mm

Dewayne McClary: So it's like, I'm going to lose my mom twice. I'm losing her now in front of me.

Dewayne McClary: But then I'm going to eventually lose her forever from this earth. And so a cousin of mine, he's a minister in Tennessee. Roger, he said, [00:38:00] when he found out about it, he's like, you need to get therapy. He was like, look, I'm telling you, you might think you strong, you can do it. He's like, ah, like, this is different to see your parents struggle like this.

Dewayne McClary: He was like, and your mom has been like the rock for a lot of people that you need to get therapy. I mean, I was like, ah, you know, therapy, I'm good. Like. You know, I'm a pray it away.

Dr: as I wrote, I said, Oh, I'm the oldest daughter, uh, Gen X er, like, I got this. I didn't have it. Let me just tell you.

Dewayne McClary: Didn't have it. When, uh, I'll tell you what took me out when my mother saw me and, uh, we were out somewhere and she told, she told someone, Oh, this is my nephew, nephew. Like I was like, wait, what? Like that, like that did something to me that was just like, need help.

Dr: Yeah.

Dewayne McClary: my wife was [00:39:00] like, You know, you got insurance, health insurance, go get therapy, it's free, like, just do it.

Dewayne McClary: Like, there are things I can't do for you, you need a professional. So I talked to my therapist and, uh, it's been the best thing I've ever done. It's revealed a lot of things that I, underlying things I never knew about. Um, and now everybody in my household is getting therapy from kids. My wife, everybody, because I saw the benefit of it and I highly recommend it.

Dewayne McClary: It doesn't, it doesn't show a sign of weakness. It actually shows a sign of strength 

Dr: it really does. Um, I had reached, and I think the important thing too, is to recognize like finding the right therapist. Cause at one point I had, I,

Dr: um. 

Dewayne McClary: I went through three until I found the right one.

Dr: Yes, you need to or recognize like I had a wonderful therapist, but we reached a plateau in my therapy where [00:40:00] she just honestly wasn't maybe equipped or just wasn't her expertise to dive into the next part

Dr: that I needed.

Dr: Um, you know, I mean, Dragonfly Rising, I lost my sister. And, she's my only sibling. I'm the oldest. I took care of her all the time because, you know, I'm a Gen Xer. We are home. Like, um, and that just changes your whole family dynamic. Like, that's a whole, like, I can't even explain that. And everyone forgets about the sibling.

Dr: They're like, Oh, the parents, her children, like, but like, she's been in my life, her whole life. You know what I mean? Like, she's the only person, right? Like, and no one else understands your family dynamic, like your sibling,

Dr: you know, like

Dewayne McClary: And there's secrets you've told each other and 

Dr: exactly. There are just things, you know, and, 

Dewayne McClary: And those hidden, those hidden conversation and jokes when so and so 

Dr: all the hidden 

Dewayne McClary: look at each other.

Dr: can make, like when your

Dr: parents are 

Dewayne McClary: and my brother, uh, we can text and say one word and we know [00:41:00] exactly what each other are talking 

Dr: exactly like, and I can't even. Describe that profound loss and I'm sure that

Dr: feels somewhat similar to like, I have a good friend whose mother is also going through dementia, like

Dewayne McClary: Mm

Dr: seeing that and watching that happen, right? And you know, it's coming and it's just so painful. And I found a different therapist and she is amazing. She had the right tools, but I would tell my friends, I was like, Ooh, this is so great, but it's also, like, so heavy. Cause like, she got to the root of these things

Dr: and you're like, Wait, What? What?

Dewayne McClary: What? That's not what I thought. I thought I came in for another reason. That's not what I came in for.

Dr: know this about myself. What? You know, and it's, I don't know.

Dewayne McClary: And see, that's, and for me, like, my wife, my wife is my confidence. She's my best friend. Um, but she told me, like, Dwayne, there's things that I, I can't say. Like, [00:42:00] there's, when she said, she said, there's things that I can say, but you probably won't take it in that way. Where if this professional tells you, you'll be like, you know what?

Dewayne McClary: So it has been like, there's things my therapist has been like, she's really been peeling away the layers to get to the root cause. And I'm sitting here thinking like, wait, and I'm paying you to do this to me?

Dr: and you're

Dewayne McClary: But it has been so beneficial. She's given me so many coping skills and mechanisms to deal with.

Dewayne McClary: You know, deal with one, dealing with my mom, dealing with the loss of my father, a couple of years ago, you know, we didn't have the best relationship. So, you know, dealing with that, you know, dealing with some other things in life, being a father, being a man, being a black man in America, work like it's just, , things that, um, I never thought about that has [00:43:00] been really helpful.

Dewayne McClary: And like I said, you know. I always was told, , I come from a very religious family. Uh, my grandfather was a minister. My godfather was a minister. I have slews of ministers in my family right now. it's like you go to the Lord, take it to the Lord in prayer, and you'll be all right. Pray about it.

Dewayne McClary: Yeah, you can pray about it, but God also gave us common sense. To people that have skills and abilities to help us. 

Dr: Yes. It is not an either or in my

Dewayne McClary: Correct. It's a both. You need both.

Dr: yes, absolutely. Oh, I agree with that so much. It's, it's just so helpful. And it's, you know, we think about equity, right? Like everyone should have

Dewayne McClary: Everyone should have one.

Dr: the opportunity to seek out a mental health provider for support if they

Dr: need it. 

Dewayne McClary: know what? Everyone should have healthcare. Everyone should have internet access. Everyone should have quality education. And everyone, I think, should run for president. Everyone should have a thing.[00:44:00]

Dr: Look, okay,

Dewayne McClary: not running for president, folks. Like, let me stop that. I'm just kidding.

Dr: um, I saw something today, and I don't know why, it just made me think of that, and you, anyway, it said no one should have imposter syndrome at this point, we have the biggest imposter in the White House right now.

Dewayne McClary: See, Tami, I wasn't going there.

Dr: Look, I can always cut it out later, but I had to say it right now. Look, I'm a little feisty at times, a little feisty, but I was a very quiet and shy child. See, that's something no one would ever guess about me.

Dewayne McClary: And see, that's, that's why I'm going to have you on live podcasts. People can really hear, who is Tami? What, you know, who are you? And that's a question that a lot of people don't ask themselves. Like, who are you? And then you have to sit there and think, if you're like me, I hate talking about myself. Like, [00:45:00] I'm, I'm the behind the scenes person.

Dewayne McClary: A lot of people don't know that. I'm an introvert. A lot of people think I'm an expert. I'm an introvert. 

Dr: oh, see? Yeah. I would have thought you were an extrovert. Just like, interesting.

Dewayne McClary: it. Like, when I get up on stage and have to speak in front of people I think my first time I had to speak in front of a big audience, it was like 5, 000 people. Man. I almost messed up my pants. My wife 

Dr: I get myself into? 

Dewayne McClary: My wife had to talk me through it. Like, I A lot of people don't know it. They think it's easy.

Dewayne McClary: It's not as easy as it looks. Like, I might make it look easy. It's not easy. I'm a, I'm an introvert. But I can turn it on, turn it off. but, uh, yeah, it's, you know, it's the things like that people don't know about who I am. 

Dr: I wouldn't have thought that about you. So look at, I learned a little something today too. So I love that. I'm excited about

Dewayne McClary: I'm good at connecting with folks. I can connect with you [00:46:00] easily. More face to face. Oh, we can go all day. 

Dr: Tami's never met a stranger. Like I remember one

Dr: time we were somewhere and they were like, we went to a restaurant and they were doing something there. The group was like, does she know them? My friend's like, no,

Dr: she doesn't know them. You know that 

Dewayne McClary: but if you give me my remote. And my, uh, downstairs in the basement in my man cave, I love myself. I can be myself all day, straight through, and wouldn't have a problem with nobody else came down to talk to me, as long as I got something to eat in the restaurant, I'm good.

Dr: something to eat. I got something to watch. You

Dr: know, I feel, I feel like as I get older, I'm probably more extroverted, but I also, as I've gotten older, like enjoy just. quiet You know, like I'm just in my space and, I'm a semi and empty nester right now, you know, my son's away at school.

Dr: My daughter moved out. She lives with her boyfriend. Right. So, I'm like, what is this? It's so, so interesting, but I, [00:47:00] I'm excited about the podcast because one, I believe in the power of story and narrative. Um, I think that's how we've always connected with each other as humans. Right. And as people like the power of story, the power of being transparent and vulnerable, you know, I've said that so many times on here to people that like, yeah, I know, I know.

Dr: No, but it's true. Like show up as yourself, be transparent. It gives people space. To feel free to also be themselves and, get to honor these people as individuals. So

Dr: I love 

Dewayne McClary: Yeah, you don't get caught up in the ego. So, you know, sometimes you get caught up in the ego that it gets to a point where people feel like they can't come to you. And I've always tried to be transparent with myself. People when I led teams, like, look, I'm just like you. Our goal is to work together.

Dewayne McClary: This is who I am. This is how I show up. I always, I always go through this with my teams. These are my triggers. Like these are the things, these are my pet peeves. [00:48:00] Um, and tell me yours, because I want to make sure that when we're working together, the ultimate goal is to get to this, you know, this end goal.

Dewayne McClary: I want to make sure that we're providing the right environment for you to make sure that you're successful, because my job as your leader is to move barriers out your way, not to micromanage you. 

Dr: Oh, amen 

Dewayne McClary: I have to micromanage you, that means I don't need you.

Dr: That yes. Yes.

Dewayne McClary: my job is to let you, give you the runway. To run and be innovative and do the work and, you know, find innovative ways and approaches to do it, be there to kind of keep you on the path, but I'm not going to hold your hand.

Dr: Yeah. And open doors if you need it, like advocate for

Dewayne McClary: that's where, where we, we got to get people to, like, that's how we're going to be a thriving economy, a thriving, um, ecosystem to, to work together because, you know, We're at a point now where we're so polarized that it's just, you can't even have clear [00:49:00] conversations with people. I remember when I was in school, I don't know if you remember this, and anyone else on the podcast remember this, who remembers the pillars of citizenship?

Dr: Oh my gosh.

Dewayne McClary: were taught these, like these things were in our faces everywhere. Trustworthiness, respect, responsibility. Fairness, caring, and citizenship. Like, those were the pillars. So yeah, that's how, we had to learn these things. 

Dr: You're like me. We're in green. 

Dewayne McClary: and they were engraved in us, and we had to, you know, learn about these things. We also learned about primary source information.

Dewayne McClary: Like, my librarian, Miss Fitz, Esther Fitz, you know, she just passed away over a hundred years old. But she taught us, like, what are primary sources? Like, just because you see it. On the internet, just because somebody say it, doesn't make it true.

Dr: Yeah,

Dewayne McClary: do you look and investigate for yourself? It's just like church.

Dr: like 

Dewayne McClary: know, like my pastor. 

Dr: right? Yes. 

Dewayne McClary: pastor [00:50:00] always tell 

Dr: I said it 

Dewayne McClary: just because I said it, don't 

Dr: of the, the verse

Dewayne McClary: it for yourself.

Dr: you just pulling it out?

Dr: Like, what is the context? Like, yes, yes.

Dewayne McClary: The wounds.

Dr: everything you hear. No, media literacy is like a huge thing to like, how do I do that? What does that look like in this day and age?

Dewayne McClary: And that's part of the, that's part of the digital, the digital equity prongs. You know, the, the citizenship and like digital literacy and etiquette.

Dr: Mm hmm.

Dewayne McClary: I think the other component is like the tech support and accessibility, uh, for people with disabilities, because I think we always forget, we, we leave those pockets of people out who have disabilities.

Dewayne McClary: Like they also are people too. So, you know, UDL design, like how do we make sure that we're designing for everyone? And I think that's where the equity comes in. It's not a, it's not a thing where we're trying to, put people in subgroups and separate and try to push this one up higher. No, equitable approach [00:51:00] is trying to lift everybody up at the same time.

Dewayne McClary: But we also have to understand that everyone didn't start at the same pace, or at the same place. So, how do we, support individuals who may have to raise some levels higher for individuals because they may not have the same experience, lived experience, that others have? And I'm, and, and, and, and, speaking on that, and I'm gonna say this and I'm gonna shut up, I get this a lot.

Dewayne McClary: Um, just because I'm a black male doesn't mean that my lived experience is like every other black male. 

Dr: Oh, 

Dewayne McClary: Just because you are a, you know, a woman of color doesn't mean your experience is like every other woman. I'm not a Barack Obama. I wasn't, I didn't grow up like him. But we have commonalities, you know, I'm, I'm, , I'm not a Clarence Thomas, but we 

Dr: if you only could see the face. 

Dewayne McClary: but, you know, it's, we are all black men, but we have different [00:52:00] lived experiences.

Dewayne McClary: And so you can't categorize, races and groups of people when you don't know where they came from

Dr: Yeah. Those

Dr: individuals. You know, Gloria Letts. Yes. Gloria Ladson Billings talks about that. She talks about it about, you know, cultural competence,

Dr: right? It's recognizing that. I may look like a student in my classroom or a colleague of mine, but our lived experience is not the same. That does not mean,

Dewayne McClary: Correct.

Dr: we are the same, and it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with that.

Dr: And then, to me, going back to the whole conversation, I think the polarization is happening because people feel like they need to convince other people about their position. Engaging in a conversation moves to understanding it doesn't always lead to agreement, but it is looking at the individual perspective and providing [00:53:00] enough respect to who that individual is to at least listen, right, to what they have to say.

Dr: And we're just not even trying to

Dewayne McClary: We're not trying to listen. If you don't agree with me, then you're my enemy. That's not going to work. I would think you may have heard this before, like, we're all on the same ship. If you start burning the ship, we're all going down. 

Dr: well, look, somebody lit the part of the ship on fire

Dr: recently. 

Dewayne McClary: so, it's like, what are we going to do? I see you trying to trigger me. Trying to get me because you know, I want to say,

Dr: Nope. Nope. Okay. Yes. We're all on the same ship. We want to be on a successful ship. We don't want to be on the Titanic.

Dewayne McClary: there's no, , there's, there's one America. And there's no two Americas, like there's one, and so if we destroy it all, then yes, those people that might agree with you, yeah, they still might agree with you, but they [00:54:00] still going to suffer too. And sometimes we, we do things not understanding, oh, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to go with this person.

Dewayne McClary: But not understanding the impacts and implications that's happening based on, you know, what is being said and not really going back to those primary sources, not really looking. Uh, what does this really mean? See, I'm, I'm a, I'm a case by case I'm an issues voter. I vote based on the issues. I don't vote based on a party.

Dewayne McClary: Now I will say I've never voted for one party ever in my life because based on the issues I've aligned with, you know, this individual, I will say there was one Republican that I, if I lived in Maryland, I probably would have voted for Larry Hogan because of some of the things that he was saying. Um, but not the, not the Larry Hogan of now, and I wouldn't vote for him now.

Dewayne McClary: But, , [00:55:00] but, I'm an issues person, and I think we gotta get back to that. Like, we really need to understand what the issues are, and we have to also understand that Washington, D. C., uh, works for us. All of our congressmen are pre they work for us. Not vice versa. Like, we Are we are the end all be all and and if folks aren't working on our behalf, and not just on my behalf, but on behalf of all American people, then what are we doing?

Dewayne McClary: What is this experiment that we call democracy? So we got to get back to understanding the primary resources and understanding, you know, what's true and what's, you know, what's false and not allow people to tell us. What's true and what's false and take them at their word.

Dr: Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think that it is. essential to realize, like, we, I know people think their vote doesn't count, but it, it does. And you need to get out and use your voice to, and if [00:56:00] somebody is on their own agenda, but they're representing your state, your country, like, that is not what they're there for.

Dr: That is a public service. It is called a public service position for a reason, because you are in the service of the American people. And that is all the American people, right? And that is why historically, yes, people have. Had disagreeing ideas, but they've been able to,

Dewayne McClary: Agree to disagree. Have non closure.

Dr: have conversation,

Dr: right? Like not this like junior high tit for tat that has been happening recently.

Dr: Like, so I hope we can get back to some semblance of democracy, um, in the near

Dewayne McClary: Yeah. 

Dr: for my sanity. Um, 

Dewayne McClary: I think it's gonna take all of us. It's gonna take K 12. It's gonna take higher ed. It's gonna take non profits, for profits. Like, one thing COVID

Dr: of your voice.[00:57:00]

Dewayne McClary: Correct. One thing COVID taught us is that we could not get through that pandemic alone. We needed every industry there was, from profit, for profit, non profit, K 12, private sector, parochial, everybody was in.

Dewayne McClary: The same predicament and we noticed we needed each other and that's, that's, you know, people talk about the silver lining of COVID. That is what COVID taught me. It also taught me to give people grace and so I've, I've continued that and given people grace and opportunity, you know, um, to deal with just life.

Dewayne McClary: Because things happen to us, you know, every day, and we just have to learn how to navigate through it, but, but still have to show up as a employee, as a father, as a husband, or as a wife, you still have to show up. So, um, that's, that's just me. And I enjoyed this. This has been awesome. 

Dr: [00:58:00] yes 

Dewayne McClary: I'll close with saying this, and everybody who knows me knows that this is my saying, this has been my mantra since I started teaching, is do right by students.

Dewayne McClary: And we have to do right by students and everything that we do. Um, and that doesn't just mean the teacher. It doesn't just meet the principal. That doesn't mean the superintendent. We're talking to everybody that that means the business owner. That means that the companies that's trying to sell things like your job is to do right by the students that you serve.

Dewayne McClary: And uh, and we got to make sure that we're pushing students closer. To opportunity, not further than away from opportunity. Every decision that we make, regardless of where you are, think of it as like an ecosystem, a pond, and you're at the epicenter of the pond. And every time you make a decision, every time you put something out there, you make a, you, you cause a ripple effect.

Dewayne McClary: And my, my question to you is when that ripple effect happens, are you pushing students closer to opportunity? [00:59:00] Are you pushing them farther away? And we have to look at our, our actions. We have to look at what we're doing and how we're supporting K 12 differently. Or, you know, we'll continually be in the place that we are with opportunity gaps and, you know, kids not wanting to continue instruction or seeing it as, you know, an opportunity to even grow or survive.

Dewayne McClary: Disconnected and disjointed from life, and you know, I'm just doing this just as a routine. It takes all of us to get to that place to where we see our students. Uh, and we start actually thinking about it and doing right by them.

Dr: Yeah, absolutely. Well, that was amazing. What a great way to end it. Thank you, Dewayne, for joining me today in the conversation. I feel like we could probably talk forever. [01:00:00] Um, listeners, I will put some links in the show notes for you and don't forget your homework. Go figure out where the ban on cell phones in schools started.

Dr: So until next time

Dewayne McClary: Where did it started? Yeah.

Dr: Ah, thanks for joining us.

Dewayne McClary: Thank you. Thank you.