From Bias to Breakthrough: Inclusive Hiring Strategies for Modern Workplaces

In this episode of The Equity Hour, host Dr. Tami  sits down with Jenn Tardy, founder of Jenn Tardy Consulting and author of The Equity Edge, to unpack the realities of bias in hiring and what leaders can do to build truly inclusive workplaces.

With two decades of experience in recruitment and DEI, Jenn brings a clear, actionable perspective on why representation matters, how subtle and underexplored biases derail talent pipelines, and what organizations can do to move from “checking the box” to systemic change.

Key Takeaways:

• Why equity—not just diversity—is the competitive advantage companies need in 2025
• Common but overlooked biases that shape hiring decisions (like “professionalism” and “competitor bias”)
• How to empower recruiters and hiring managers with plain-language tools to spot and mitigate bias
• The difference between “calling out” and “calling in” — and how leaders can create space for accountability without defensiveness
• Why equity is a marathon, not a one-and-done training, and how organizations can sustain momentum despite resistance

Whether you’re a C-suite leader, HR professional, or manager shaping team culture, this episode will give you practical strategies to create equitable systems that attract, hire, and retain top talent.

Resources Mentioned:

• The Equity Edge by Jenn Tardy 
• The Platinum Bias Checklist (free resource)

Coaching Discovery Call

Transcript

Dr. Tami: 0:43

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Equity Hour with me, your host, Dr. Tami. I am so excited this week to bring Jennn Tardy to the podcast. Hello, Jenn.

Jenn: 0:58

Well, hello there. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Tami: 1:01

We are so excited to have you on the podcast. And of course, today we're gonna be talking about all things equity. And let me tell you a little bit about Jenn before we hop right in today. Jenn Tardy has been on a mission to help employers and job seekers reach their goals since 2004. Driven by a passion to see increasing diversity. Make sense? And since, gosh, I love that. As a recruitment thought leader, she established Jenn Tardy Consulting, AKA team, JTC to enable employers to find a track, engage, and hire more applicants from historically underrepresented backgrounds. Through her hashtag hiring success programs, she has empowered many organizations to talk openly about. Underrepresentation, remove inequalities from their hiring processes and foster more inclusive work cultures. Welcome, Jenn.

Jenn: 1:53

I'm happy to be here and to have this conversation.

Dr. Tami: 1:57

Oh, I am too. You know, I think the conversation is always important, right? When we think about diversity, equity, inclusion in workspaces and hiring in just everyday life, I think. Even more so right now, given some of the

Jenn: 2:15

Yes.

Dr. Tami: 2:16

climate and more, what's the word I wanna say? Like prevalent, pushback around it. I think pushback has always been there. It's just a little bit more, um, overt right now.

Jenn: 2:29

You know, I think resistance has always been there, but pushback is what we're experiencing today and I never thought about it until you. Said it the way you said it just now. There's always been this subtle resistance, but now it's like, there's like pushback and, and a lot of my peers in this industry are feeling it as well too.

Dr. Tami: 2:49

Yeah. Yeah, that's a really great way to think about that. Yeah. Okay. So. On every episode because I believe that this work is like a marathon and not a sprint. Oftentimes, some misconstrued, like it's a one and done thing. Like we had a professional development on non-biased hiring practices, right? And now we're money. No, right. This, this is a journey. And I think one of the important things as we think about humanity and humans is sharing our journey, sharing our story of how we got into this work. What does it look like, to invite. Others into the work or for the, to invite them to see how they've maybe been doing some of this work and maybe not realizing it. So I ask every single one of my guests to share a little bit, a short version. Uh, because usually everybody that's on here has like, and I say that like a dissertation worthy, journey.

Jenn: 3:48

born.

Dr. Tami: 3:49

Yeah. And then, um, you know, just a little bit about your equity journey, like what brought you here, to kind of where you are today.

Jenn: 4:00

Yeah, so, uh, I, I share with people that I grew up in recruiting in general, and so I started off as a baby recruiter, moved all the way up to leading recruiting leaders, and one of the challenges that we faced as a leader has always been how do we increase representation within our organization? And so I wanted to do, I wanted to have training for my recruiters. And I would go out and take it first.'cause I wanted to see if it was immersive, if it was deep enough training and could not find what I was looking for. And you know what they say, you can't find it, create it and

Dr. Tami: 4:35

Yep. Write it, create it. Which we're gonna get to the writing part in a second.

Jenn: 4:39

okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, exactly. So on, on my end. It was really about doing a deep dive in history. I never even realized that I, I would ever be that person that says I'm a history. I love learning about history, but the more I began to understand about history, the dots started connecting very easily. When you look at history through the lens of employment. And, um, and so that's the way I got into this work of diversity, equity, and inclusion and teaching and training about this work. So you were talking just now a second ago about how there's just too much general training. So what we are focused on is training through the lens of recruiters so they can understand how to do this work. So that's why I'm here today.

Dr. Tami: 5:28

Okay. Awesome. I love that. If you don't see what you need in the world, go and make it for yourself and for other people that, that need it. So I love that. Um, and well that just kind of takes us to, right, the importance of what do we. What do recruiters need to know? Right? When we're thinking about hiring, when we're thinking about retention, when we're thinking about, workplace culture, you hear so much like build an inclusive work environment, build this, you know, space of psychological safety. And I often find myself being like, but for whom?

Jenn: 6:09

Yeah. Yeah, because, because some people are feeling safe, some people are feeling safe and secure, and it is just asking whose voice is missing at the table. And so I'm a, I try to teach and train and talk in a very. Plain language sort of way. Almost like it's two of us sitting and having tea and we're talking about something that can appear complex, but it's like your friend is trying to explain it to you. That's how I talk to recruiters. Is that your tea or do you have coffee right now?

Dr. Tami: 6:38

I have coffee, but.

Jenn: 6:41

I love it. I love it. I love it. Tea or coffee is absolute. I've already had my tea this morning, so we're good. Okay. So, um, as I'm training recruiters, it's about looking at. Where bias shows up in every milestone of the hiring process from how you're thinking about finding, attracting, interviewing, selecting. And so I want recruiters to be able to, and hiring managers to be able to anticipate how bias shows up in all of us as humans through, through what they're doing on a regular basis, which is hiring. And so that's how I tend to, to train people. And we take things that can appear kind of complex and we break it down into plain language. So for me, you know, when people will always talk about, um, you know, equality versus equity and they would sort of exchange them and I would, and I would just say, well, I understand equality, but then what is equity? Right? And I'm sure, you know, with your show, you've had to explore that as well too. And so I talk about equity. A way of saying, okay, so if equality is everyone having access, right? What's preventing that access? It's um, it's a lack of equity. And so really creating equity is about finding where the hurdles are to, to actually having equality and removing those hurdles. That's what equity is about. And so within the hiring process, we're asking the question, where are those hurdles that are preventing this equal opportunity? If in our role where we are accountable, anyone who touches the hiring process is if you see something, say something, because that's the only way we can begin to, to remove bias in hiring.

Dr. Tami: 8:25

Mm-hmm. Okay. I have a couple thoughts.

Jenn: 8:27

I love

Dr. Tami: 8:28

imagine that, imagine that, um, I want to come back to first. To the idea about bias. I think that sometimes that, and let me know if this is what you see too, is I think people feel challenged with the idea that they have bias. But in reality, right, as a human, that is part of humanity, is we have bias. The essential part is how do I recognize my bias? How do I act or not act on my bias? Right? And recognize those, those biases. I'm curious when we're thinking about the hiring process and, and bias and, I know we're gonna get into your, your book here in a second, but I know you talk about underexplored biases and I'm really curious, like what are like, maybe a little, couple nuggets you could share about that, that people think they're noticing but maybe they're not When it comes to, uh, the workplace.

Jenn: 9:27

I have so many thoughts isn't right now as well too, because even when you think about, um, bias, it is always important. If you have something or someone who can say, here's how bias typically shows up, and we all have it, everybody has it, and here's how it shows up in this context for you, in your role, can be very, very helpful. Because it, it's almost like it's the stop sign is going to come, and I want you to know it's going to come. So when you approach it, you know what to do. So that's sort of the, the form of here's how you can become more aware of it. But some exec and, and, the reason that, that there's so many biases that aren't aware of because of our conditioning, we've all been conditioned. Um, in different ways, you know, even how we identify, you know, culturally from the, a gender standpoint, from all of, there's, there's still certain conditionings that happen too that make us less aware of it. Okay. Now to your specific question,

Dr. Tami: 10:29

Those social norms coming in that we don't even know that we were taught. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Jenn: 10:33

Yes. So like, uh, even how we think about professionalism, who is and who isn't professional, there's bias. We see that through a lens of bias. When you think about professionalism, you think about what's socially acceptable in the workplace, and you have to ask yourself who's been in the workplace the longest? And, and typically when you think in the frame of the United States of America, it's been white men. And so as they're showing up in, in their suits and ties and, and, and all of those things, it, it all, the whole idea of professionalism sort of connects to that. And so now fast forward to 2025. I was reading this article once that was talking about. The more closely you identify or you show up as, um, as an able-bodied heterosexual white male, the more you're deemed professional, the more you're deemed more successful. And the further you are away from that, the less it is. So that's one area of bias. Another one that we don't talk about enough that I, I do talk about in the Equity Edge is, competitor bias. If you've ever worked in a workplace and specifically have been in recruiting, you may have heard hiring managers say, well, I don't wanna hire anybody that's ever worked at this organization over here. They don't have, you know, they don't produce great talent, so don't if, if this, if this workplace is on their resume, don't send them over here. But, you know, there's bias within that. Right. Um, and you may be losing out on great talent. They may have gone over there and decided, I don't wanna work here either. I, I'm, I'm too talented.

Dr. Tami: 12:09

Like, this isn't my space or this, this place vexes my values, or whatever it is, right? Like

Jenn: 12:16

absolutely. Um, and so like those are two that I, that I typically point out, on what bias can actually look like in the workplace.

Dr. Tami: 12:24

Yeah, I think. Oh, that's like so powerful. The, and it's so true. Like even from my own personal experience, like the further you are away from the white, heterosexual male, and it can show up in the smallest of ways, even if we just think about women in general and how a woman. Like can show up in a certain way in the workspace or ask certain questions or, you know, quote unquote be assertive.

Jenn: 12:52

Yeah,

Dr. Tami: 12:53

Um, right. And that's the word that's often used, right? Like, you're too assertive or what? Versus like, oh, you're being a leader or like a strong leader. So it's, The, the, I always tell people like, it's important to pay attention to the language people use and, and label with. Different groups of people within a space.

Jenn: 13:16

Yeah. Yes, I absolutely agree. And while I'm thinking about it too. I actually have a free guide, um, called, Platinum Bias Checklist, where we have over 400 different biases that we talk about in there. It's actually a, a pretty thick guide, and we talk, we say This is the bias, here's how it typically shows up. Here's an example of, and here's one way to mitigate it. So I'll, I'll give you that

Dr. Tami: 13:40

Oh, I love it, y'all. I'll put it in the show notes so you can go get it. Yes. We love a free resource, we love a re free resource. Um, I love that because it's like, this is a way to get started. I always think it's really nice to have like a quick way to get started and I, I wanna come back to something you said too,'cause I was just talking about, you know, pay attention, right? When, how people are labeled or how we talk about people. In the workspace or when we're in the, you know, hiring process. And you said if you see something, say something. I guess I wanna talk a little bit about, I think in some spaces people are afraid to say something because the environment is necessarily conducive to listening when they see something and want to say something. So what would be. I guess your advice or your thoughts around how to work through being in that situation.

Jenn: 14:38

Yes. And so the whole idea of if you see something, say something, we hear that all the time, like in airports, if you see something, say something there. And so I pull that into the work that we do, here. And um, I also wanna preface this by saying. My personal philosophy is not a call out. I'm, it's not my ministry. I'm not here to call people out. Like I see something that I'm gonna point my finger. Hey, there are some people that, that, that is their ministry and that's completely okay. It's like, in order to get this work done, I have to call you out. My philosophy is more of a call in, right? And in calling people in, it's more about asking questions because we, we wanna assume positive intent. And then we wanna ask more questions to better understand where were they trying to get to with it. So that's, that's one way of just asking more questions and then through opening that space to ask questions, you know, there could be an opportunity to help, to educate, even though it's not everyone's job to do any education. Now, if you're talking in terms of, being a recruiter and how we teach our recruiters about, if you see something, say something, you. You have to position yourself as an advisor, as a recruiting advisor, I'm a recruiting partner to you hiring manager, and so my job is to help to protect you, even if it's from your own self. And so being able to position yourself as an advisor, calling them in, asking more questions, then it creates that space where you can share some feedback. Um, there,

Dr. Tami: 16:12

Yeah. Yeah.

Jenn: 16:13

what we do.

Dr. Tami: 16:14

I think that's a very important distinction, right? The, the calling out and the pointing the finger versus an invitation. I like to think of it as like an invitation to a conversation because if we think about just humans in general, when someone is calling us out, a, whatever it is, right? We automatically get a little

Jenn: 16:38

Tense.

Dr. Tami: 16:38

right, and tense, and our defenses get up. Which makes us naturally less open to listen and hear what someone else is saying.'cause we're probably more thinking about how am I protecting my person?'cause that is just human nature. But a question and an invitation or a curiosity around something you've noticed is, is a little bit more. Calming,

Jenn: 17:02

Yeah.

Dr. Tami: 17:03

then not, and, and they may, and you may find, I think this is also important, you may find in that invitation in the conversation, they're not in a space to, maybe

Jenn: 17:12

And then you

Dr. Tami: 17:13

some feedback that could help shift it, which is also great information for you to know, it is not everybody's job to

Jenn: 17:21

To educate.

Dr. Tami: 17:22

educate everybody.

Jenn: 17:23

Right, right. And, and another thing that you had said too was, um. That make me think about why people don't lean in more to these conversations is because they don't wanna experience, backlash. Right? They may be fearful of that. And so one of the things that I share with teams, is language to use. I am an avid believer that, um. Effective language moves more people along and leaves less people feeling left out of the conversation. And so if you have a team, even having a living, a live document of. Here's effective language that you can use. If you wanna lean into this conversation around equity, you can just start a document. You can start a document in your team. And so people realize that, oh, if I say this or use this phrase, it's effective and we've all agreed on it. So now I'm, I'm gonna feel more comfortable. Sometimes just giving people the, uh, accepted language to use within that team environment can help more people lean into conversations.

Dr. Tami: 18:41

Absolutely. That's the power of community really when you think about it, right? Because we're all now a collective, and I'm not standing in, you know, on my own, on this island. So, okay, so all these things are happening. you got into this'cause you're like, this doesn't even exist. What I needed to, I, I have just a feeling, I mentioned this earlier, like if the book that I need isn't there, I'm supposed to write it. Was it Tony Morrison that said that? I think it was,

Jenn: 19:08

I don't know.

Dr. Tami: 19:08

I, I'll have to look it up, y'all, but I, I don't know. I'm feeling, I think it was her.

Jenn: 19:13

Okay.

Dr. Tami: 19:14

rest in peace. But, I feel like maybe that's how your book came to be was, or you've had these experiences and you wanted to put it together. So I'm just, tell me a little bit how your book came to be and what gems you have in there and your hopes for it, because it just came out everyone in June. So exciting. Congratulations on your book, baby.

Jenn: 19:33

Thank you, thank you, thank you. And I do wanna clarify, it's not that diversity recruitment training didn't exist. It just, it just wasn't as effective as I needed it for the team. I would walk into these trainings and, um, and the facilitator. Would only be able to answer something very surface level. I don't know if you've ever heard before. Um, when you think of someone with more expertise, can they go three questions deep so you, you answer the surface level. Okay, let, let's go deeper. Can you go? And they couldn't go deeper beyond the surface. Now I wanted something just deeper now, once we started rolling out the training and I started seeing the questions that people were asking me, and I loved those conversations, I started thinking to myself, if. What is the fuller picture? What is the, and I'm gonna use your word'cause I think this is where you and I really bond the human version. What is the human story that I'm trying to tell here to bring it all together and how do I condense it? And that's when I started thinking about the book, the Equity Edge. And so with the Equity Edge, not only do I get to take. Hiring leaders and recruiters, on a journey or just leaders in general on a journey on finding good talent on your team. I also get to layer in the things that people have always wanted to say, but they never felt comfortable saying it. For instance, I have a section about, um, unquestioned answers. So one of the things that perpetuates our, underrepresentation is that there are a lot of answers that we just accept because it's the way we've always done things and no one ever really questions it like. If we have a lack of diversity within our organization, it's because of there's nobody out there, right? Or you know, there's a smaller population out there. Is that the truth? And so we begin to have those conversations. And another thing about the Equity Edge too, is that I get to layer in a lot of my personal stories, because again, it makes it human. I talk about my dad who worked at the same job for 30 years. Um, and he never made it beyond, a supervisory position, because he didn't have his bachelor's degree. However, all of his managers, all the leaders, would always pull him in to fix things at higher levels because he was the best at what he did. They'd always pull him in so they could give him the work, but they couldn't give him the title, which also didn't equate to the pay. Yeah. And so I get to tell real stories like that throughout the book, and so being able to bring it all together was very exciting for me, and I hope people can feel it.

Dr. Tami: 22:26

Oh, I, I, I love the power of story. Like to me, that is how we have related to each other as humans, like throughout our history, right? Before, you know, like the oral, our oral story, like.

Jenn: 22:40

yeah.

Dr. Tami: 22:40

just the power of story and, and its relatability. And, you know, as you were telling your dad's story,

Jenn: 22:48

Yeah.

Dr. Tami: 22:49

me think a lot about. The hidden work that exists for a lot of people, like maybe going back to what we talked about, the further you, you are, you are, the further I can't talk, the further you are away from this accepted sort of norm, the less likely you might be able to be elevated into those spaces, but they want to. You know, get some free ideas and free, you know, labor from you, to do that. Which is a hard place, because one, you feel valued when someone wants your ideas, right, and your knowledge and you know that your valuable to them. But two, it also feels not so great because you aren't getting the recognition and the compensation you're like. Wait, what? You know, it's funny'cause my son, who just graduated from college was asking me if I had heard of the Peter principal the other week

Jenn: 23:48

I haven't, what is the Peter principal

Dr. Tami: 23:50

Oh, okay. So I was like, this, is what this makes me think of. The Peter principal is essentially that. Um, people keep getting promoted within an organization based on their ability to do their current job, and they keep getting promoted to the point, right, where they're, they really don't have the skillset to do the role in which they're placed. And I know this is something I have seen

Jenn: 24:17

Yeah,

Dr. Tami: 24:17

and I know lots of people have, but it makes me think about that, so you might have someone who's been promoted because they're the right, whatever.

Jenn: 24:25

the right

Dr. Tami: 24:25

Yeah, yeah, whatever. But then, oh, I'm not necessarily really qualified for this. So now I'm pulling up people that I need their ideas because I'm not quite in place. So anyway, the Peter principle just made me think of this Peter principle, and I feel like your book is a way to kind of maybe counteract that. Like if we're looking at the big picture within our organization.

Jenn: 24:50

Yes, absolutely to understand that these things are happening and, and how to, you are exactly right. How to counteract it. Uh, there's this one study that I have been looking for for years that I cannot go back and find. So if any of your listeners find this, please

Dr. Tami: 25:06

Send it on. Yes.

Jenn: 25:08

because it was a study about why. Um, individuals from marginalized communities tend to perform at a higher level once they get to executive ranks, and it's not an anomaly that their, that their performance is actually higher. Um, and, and it's because they are. They spend so much time at the managerial level because it's so challenging from people from underrepresented groups to go from the managerial level into the executive ranks. But because they've spent so much time usually double their, their white male peers, that by the time against the executive ranks, they're just performing better. And when I, and I was looking back for that researcher, I could not find it, but it was a very interesting article. Things don't just happen. You know, we don't just wake up one day to underrepresentation. There are, there are actual things that are happening that, that are causing underrepresentation at all levels within an organization.

Dr. Tami: 26:12

Mm yes. Oh, that's very.

Jenn: 26:18

Isn't that interesting?

Dr. Tami: 26:19

That's so interesting and it, it probably is true, right? Especially if you think about if someone's sitting in like a mid, mid-level management role, right? You're, that role is kind of tugged from both. Areas, right? And you get to kind of learn how to navigate all the spaces, which really sets you up. I, I'm a very much like a systems brain thinker girl and to me, the more you understand a system when you are at an elevated role, the easier it is to relate and to make decisions or. Strategically build systems that get the voices at the table that need to be heard, so you get the desired outcomes I think sometimes when people are elevated too quickly or don't have the experience, they just wanna make decisions because they're, I'm the executive and this is what we need to do. And it maybe ignores, um.

Jenn: 27:19

The bigger picture,

Dr. Tami: 27:20

Uh huh Uhhuh and then the people in the mid-manager right. Are scrambling to, you know, make, make things work.

Jenn: 27:28

I would, I would absolutely agree. I couldn't have said it better.

Dr. Tami: 27:33

Love it. Love it. Okay, so your book, I, what are your kind, what are your goals? What are your hopes for the impact that your, your book will have? Who, who should get this book?

Jenn: 27:43

So the impact that I'm hoping it has is that it stir greater discussion around what. Not only what real equity is, but how it can be an edge for your organization, how it can be a benefit and advantage for your organization. And so it um, one of the things that I failed to mention earlier when we were talking about the book is that at the end of each chapter, I also write. A note to job seekers. So it's almost like, Hey, pay attention to what I'm telling employers, because here's how you can use this information to your advantage if you're on your job search. So it's to people who are on their job search. It's to leaders within organizations that have to fill positions on their team or who are thinking about who needs to go to the next level. Um. So, yeah, if you're in a workplace and you're trying to drive change, even if you're not even connected to these, even if you're just an employee in your workplace and you want to drive change, just slide this book over to your CHRO. I say the things in there for you.

Dr. Tami: 28:49

Look. I love that. I love that. What about, um, I'm curious. You know, we wanna slide it over, but I feel like this could even be a space to start with maybe some ERGs or those types of groups who are, you know, tasked in some ways to help support, um, building that edge. I really love that. I love the way you explain that. I'm like, it's gonna give you that edge. Like, oh, I was like, that is money. I love it.

Jenn: 29:15

Here's how you can really think about leveling the playing field to have an edge. But you're, you're absolutely right. If your organization, um, has an ERG or, and they have a book club, or if there's a book club within your, this is a great book to use in a very tactical way to figure out if you're asking, Hey, what's next? Especially now, you know, in this current landscape, it's, it's what's next, um, for us, within our organization. And so this is a good book for that.

Dr. Tami: 29:44

Yeah, I wanna talk about that a little bit, right? The current landscape and climate, we talked about the resistance, a little bit and. I feel like your book is an opportunity for those that might be challenged a little bit with the resistance. Like where do we fit, where do we align? You know, there's, there's a lot of legislation or like, not even legislation, it's just executive orders. Um, I, I just need everybody understand those are not the same thing.

Jenn: 30:14

Correct.

Dr. Tami: 30:15

One is not the law. Sorry, that was a little side note. But there's a lot of things happening. There's the, the pushback we talked about, so not quite resistance. Um, and I lost my question in my side note, but let me Hold on. It'll go, go ahead.

Jenn: 30:36

But let, but, so with, with the current landscape, which is what we were talking about, um, because I, I tend to talk about this a lot on podcasts too, that it's almost like with this administration, it makes you wonder, was the goal? To keep workplaces sort of spinning in this perpetual way, sort of spinning. So it's not a, Hey, we, we don't do this, we won't do this. It's a, I don't know how we can do this, you know, this human work to create equitable access. I don't know how we can do this because we're, we're still not fully understanding all of the legislation. And I wonder if that was the actual goal, just to keep people sort of. Confused a little bit so that no motion happens, right?

Dr. Tami: 31:28

Oh, I feel like that is probably spot on. I, I keep saying that about a lot of things, like it's smoke and mirrors, right? Because if like, don't look in the right hand.'cause I got, you're, you're, you're looking at the left hand and what's happening over here and something's happening over here and I think.

Jenn: 31:44

That's how it feels.

Dr. Tami: 31:45

Yeah, I think you're probably spot on.'cause if you're circling the drain right, you're not gonna make a decision. You're trying to make changes because, this was said this week and then it's repealed the next like, and so all you're doing is, is

Jenn: 32:02

to circle.

Dr. Tami: 32:03

Mm-hmm.

Jenn: 32:03

Yeah. Yeah. What do you do with that? And so my goal, my goal, um, we have a, a newsletter on LinkedIn called, Increased Diversity. My goal has been how do I help to bring some clarity to,, employers who are still trying to come out of that spinning, you know? So every week we're posting an article where we're talking about, you know, these things. So.

Dr. Tami: 32:28

You know, that's so funny. I was just gonna bring up your newsletter because. I am so intrigued by the current, uh, Workday class action.

Jenn: 32:39

you've been following

Dr. Tami: 32:40

Oh, yes. I've been following it and I, yeah, so y'all like, you need to subscribe to this newsletter because it's so informative. A hundred percent. And I, of course will put a link, um, to the website so you can do that. But. I'm so curious. Like just, anybody, if you're on LinkedIn,

Jenn: 33:00

Yeah.

Dr. Tami: 33:01

you see just every day this narrative about people and like, I'm applying for hundreds of jobs, like all this jobs and like AI and all this stuff. So, um, if you're not familiar right now, there's a, a lawsuit that's about to be heard related to Workday and like them using ai. To filter, um, their applicants and that the AI as an agent of these companies is biased, which we do know, like AI learn, going back to what we talked about, society, right? Like AI learns what it gleans from society. So by its very nature, it is also going to be biased because it is learning biased information, right?

Jenn: 33:42

Yeah. Yeah. Because how it's being built. So, and I always, I tell people often that when it comes to AI you have to remember two things. One is people who are building these software, they still have to pay attention to their own biases as well, because it feeds into the thinking and the logic in this. And then second, I always recommend that if employers are using AI. That they do not replace it from the real work. That has to be done with identifying your own biases too, because you're just delaying the inevitable. Eventually, they're gonna meet you and, and your team, and if you, if you're still not training them to identify their own biases, you're still gonna run into issues down the line.

Dr. Tami: 34:28

Yeah. Yeah. I am. So yeah, we're on part three of four.

Jenn: 34:37

I just approved part four today, so part three came, came out today I think. Um, and then part four will be out next week.

Dr. Tami: 34:47

Yes. So y'all like I Well, it'll be released out. It'll already be released. So you need to go back and read past issues by the time this podcast comes out. But like, and, and

Jenn: 34:57

Thank you.

Dr. Tami: 34:57

Yes. And, you know, pay attention, because these are important things, like, I think it's easy, like we were talking about, to get, into the weeds with everything that's happening and like you don't have to. Teach everyone. You don't have to be into everything, but pick some things that are important to you to continue and to learn about. Um, get Jenn's book, the Equity Edge to to help you. Um, anything else Jenn, you wanna share about your book that I didn't ask you?

Jenn: 35:30

So in the very end we started talking about, you know, throughout the book we talked about who is qualified. It is this, it's this question that I want all of your listeners to think about. This, everywhere we go, we're asking the question, who is qualified even outside of the workplace. It's more than who's qualified for this position. It's who's qualified to be my bestie, who's qualified to be my partner in life, who's qualified to be my um, business coach? We're always asking the question, who was qualified? You know, any of the lens through which we're qualifying, people still has bias attached to it. So if we keep thinking that it's just about how we show up in the workplace, we're missing the bigger picture. It's a human factor, and that's what, um, I want people to be able to understand as they're looking at the Equity Edge here too. So, thank you.

Dr. Tami: 36:25

Oh, you are so welcome. I love that. I love We can't, yes. Humans are so necessary we can't be replaced. Right? And Lord knows we've seen enough movies. What happens when we try, like it's not a good idea. Awesome. Well, I want you all to, you know, put in the show notes, uh, information to get connected with Jenn if you are interested in her services, A link to her book, her free resource, she mentioned. I feel like you kind of gave a final tip. It was really related to your book, but do you have one kind of final tip you wanna give, uh, to the listeners today before we wrap up?

Jenn: 37:01

I would just say stay connected to us. You can just go to jennifer tardy.com where we have so many free resources and things there. So if, if you're just interested in how to get your feet wet and what more you can do, just stay connected to us as well, and we can, we can keep you on the right path.

Dr. Tami: 37:18

Yes. I love that. Well, thank you, Jenn, for joining me today. Thank you listeners for tuning into another episode of the Equity Hour. As you know, you can find everything in the show notes and make sure you're using your voice today. Thank you, Jenn.

Jenn: 37:34

Thanks for having me. I appreciate you.